What do you actually train in that you are employing a kimura? Are you studying Jiu Jitsu of some type? BJJ? Sambo? Judo? uhh... what? How do you figure you know lots about fixing "chronic muscular weakness and pain"... reading bits on the internet is not the same as actually studying medicine. In fact it's not anything close at all... if the anatomical images that you've posted are anything to go by... you're a very, very long ways off from studying medicine I can assure you. Seriously. What art are you training again? uhh... wait just a minute ago you said you were better than your local doctors at fixing 'chronic muscle weakness and pain' and yet it's taken you all day looking at Wikipedia to figure out where the pain is coming from during a kimura?!? Big hint... directly from Wikipedia: source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armlock#Keylock Most likely with the kimura you're going to be looking at damage to the rotator cuff.
This thread is epic. Busting out of kimuras. Heart compression techniques (really?). All we're missing is a chi blast and a dim mak executed with the big toe.
What people are trying to say is that you are taking the wrong approach to this. I was a national-level strength athlete and have performed military presses with 405 lbs. for a double and benched 545 for 4x (raw-no lifting suit). Even I can't muscle out of an effectively applied key lock, kimura or hammer lock by strength alone. Heavy work on military presses, clean and press, upright rows and rear lateral raises may strengthen the structure, but at most, it will give you some "slack on the line". There are technical counters to these variations though and that is your best bet. If caught in either mount or side mount w/ the arm up, bridge to change their leverage and explode both of your arms above your head, clasp your hands (I prefer the "strong grip") and pull your hands back down to center. If your arm is down in a side mount, bridge and shoot your hand down and grab behind your knee, then use the knee to feed your hand to your free hand so that you can bring it back to center. For these types of attacks, your opponent is trying to isolate the joint away from the rest of the body; to counter, you must change their position and bring it back to center so that the joint is safe. If it's an attack from the open guard, once again, you need to break down their position and reinforce the arm and shoulder. This position gives you a few more options including grabbing the back of your knee, shorts or your opposite hand (like a tricep pose in bb) or as a last resort, you can try to roll out. In this version, you can often use your weight to help break them down and improve your position including to half guard and even mount.
Well, ya. It does. This is just extra stuff. I like to try and over-prepare. For example I train to block punches in the tai chi method (My main art currently), then train to hard block, condition my arm to take blows old hard style method, and I've tried a bit of iron shirt chi kung just in case I get hit... also I let people punch me with increasing strength until I feel I can't take the next blow, to build up my tolerance. Same with this kimura thing.
I used to do judo and am now learning wrestling from a friend who used to wrestle in college. Cross training. Maybe I worded that wrong. Studying is different from taking up medicine. My mother is a nurse and so I got a lot of informal training earlier. Now, I'm studying to "increase" my knowledge of medicine. I say I know more about that specific topic because I normally know what to do for such things and recently someone came to me for help with chronic weakness in the leg that doctors could not seem to do much about. She believes what I have advised (freaking basic stuff) has helped more than the 3 or 4 doctor's she's been to. I don't advertise or charge anything and don't try to replace doctors but there was this doctor who prescribed a daily hot compress to someone with muscle inflammation, aggravating it for 2 weeks. I had that person try not applying the compress for 2 days. No more pain and swelling and normal walking in 4 days. They got a new doctor. I'm not good. Just a lot of idiot doctors over here. I do know my knowledge of medicine is very very limited. Why are we talking about me? This is off topic. The doctors can be really bad over here. prescribing 12 medicines to a pregnant woman causing some sort of immune deficiency for example. This actually helped. Thank you. I wish we could be more on topic though and focus on the stupid topic rather than delving on how stupid the topic is or how stupid the stupid person who thought up the stupid topic is.
Heart compression = compressing the heart. Imagine what would happen if you performed cardiopulmonary resuscitation on a live person. I'm glad you're entertained though.
I hope you know I am very conscious of this. The idea is to practice not getting taken down, not getting caught on the ground, grappling as good as the other guy, countering kimura attempts (among other things), and also exercising those muscles. I try to be comprehensive. I hear ya and earnest thanks for the kimura counter advice.
That technique I'm trying to come up with is up too close for that. They'd have to wrestle me. And, yes, I'm aware the theoretical maneuver could prove to be simply impossible and might get me punched in the face. It's a trial and error thing that I'm trying to figure out how to even try safely. Good luck to me. If it were to work though, you might be able to stop someone's heart in the middle of a fight. Instant win and all that.
Ignoring the fact that you'd never get the leverage on a standing person to perform a full chest compression and that a single chest compression is extremely unlike to stop a person's heart, you still have to deal with the fact that such a manoeuvre would require you to have at least one of your hands free, opening up one side of your body to attack, so whilst you're fondling my breasts, I'd be tenderising one side of your face.
Actually it would look kinda like this. Leverage is a big problem. I'm more concerned with getting bitten or into a headbutting contest than being punched. Obviously, it needs a lot of work. Surprisingly, it's not that hard to get in that close even in combat conditions. Easier than a double leg tackle. Just trying to figure out this possibly pointless move has helped me learn more about my stand-up throws so it's not really time wasted.
Holy poo... ...I remember being pleased with myself for benching about 120lbs....545 is just cool O_O
That's very fanciful thinking. Watch Kyokushin sparring on Youtube and see how hard those guys are routinely blasting each other in the chest, to the point where sometimes when you get hit you actually feel your chest move in slightly. Yet somehow they aren't dropping dead left and right. I have also personally had my xiphoid process seriously injured during kumite and also did not drop over dead. Thoughts like these are why people need to quit theorizing and go and actually bang it out with someone so they see how real fighting actually works.
Would a chest palm be more relevant here? Please, I urge you, learn wrestling from a real coach, and take up kyokushin, muay Thai, boxing, MMA or enshin, any will do, and see what it's really like being hit and hitting someone. There's no time or point in standing CPR or tres minor flexing, no matter how much your seratus is prepared to resist ONE LOCK it won't make a difference you just hit them very hard, try to remember your footwork and get hit pretty damn hard. Time spent doing endless reps for anti kimura strength is just time you could spend sparring, dead lifting, reading or anything other than preparing to defend ONE MOVE. It's called training economy and yours sucks dude.
I've been in actual fights. Some were real ones on the street. Most of the week I train in a normal manner. This is what I do when I'm bored. Again, it's really just random musing, like trying to do stunts with a bike rather than just biking or trying to figure out how to climb walls with your bare hands (I never thought it possible til I saw it). Also, it is not meant to be a strike but a push upward into the diaphragm while holding the opponent in place with the other arm. The maneuver itself is not the idea but the rather how to compress (Not strike) the chest cavity deeply in a fight.
Leverage is the LEAST of your problems As you should be - I would have bitten half your face off by the time your hand was up the middle No it doesn't - I can save you a lot of work with four words STOP DOING THIS CRAP Wasn't that easy? Yes it is - you have wasted time theorising about a technique that wil never (and in this case I do mean NEVER) work when you could have been doing something more constructive. Like driving a sharp stick into your left ear for example Also, Having read all your posts I am calling shenanigans
It's supposed to be that I'd be thinking up this crap even if I had a real coach. I've been in fights against boxers and MMAers among people of other disciplines... and maybe one enshin guy but I'm not really certain if that was an enshin guy. I would actually love to spar with a practitioner of muai thai or kyokushin... and maybe a bull like Mas Oyama some day. I'll probably die against the bull though but at least I know that much. This is an awful simplistic view of martial arts. Is this your training philosophy? Do you dodge? Do you throw? Do you reposition? Also, what do you mean no time? I'm not racing against anything. The worst that will happen is the technique never materializes and I learn something else interesting along the way. Everyone seems to assume a lot about other people's fighting experiences and actual training methodology online. I train weekdays after work (in a very normal manner), spar whenever possible and only spend maybe 2 hours a week (usually on a weekend) trying to get these particularly weird ideas to work. And no I wouldn't try them in a real fight unless I thoroughly worked them out and knew that they were useful. The only one that's materialized is a relatively simple feint and punch technique but it hasn't failed me yet.
