I am not a Taijiquan practitioner, my only exposure to it being from the simplified Wushu sets (which I have learned only in passing as I think they are stupid and dont bring anything to CMA, whereas chanquan brings super-exciting fast pace acrobatics), however today I had a very interesting introduction to it. I went to a gym that I sometimes frequent because it has better equipment than my home gym and I can meet people there, after my Judo class. There there were two Thai style boxers sparring, both knew me and that I have a small talent at the sport and asked me to watch. I know both of them and both are moderately talented boxers with an equal amount of training time to their skill: they'll probably never be great fighters but certainly competent. Anyway, let's refer to boxer in the red trunks and white handwraps as Xiao and the one in blue trunks and yellow handwraps as Gao, he being an inch or two taller than Xiao. They both were not using gloves so they could work expanded clinching and catching to improve their abilities. Anyway: onto the Taijiquan Gao and Xiao start slowly and build up steam, my shouts of encouragement goading them on to get faster and faster. Suddenly, at one point, Gao drops his right hand from his guard and doesn't appear to do anything with it, I think that for sure he's going to knocked silly but he very suddenly moves his right hip violently forward and thrusts his hand somewhere on Xiao's torso. From there he seems to work his hips a bit more, turning his feet to gain momentum and he succeeds in off-balancing his opponent. Somehow, I am really not so sure, he drops his other hand to Xiao's waist as well and uses the momentum of the off-balance to twirl Xiao around and drop him on his back. Afterwards I asked him where that came from since most Muay Thai throws do not work like that. He said his first martial art had been Taijiquan, though he didnt mention a branch. Very fun stuff, I was glad to see new things being tried like that. It was nice because as a judoka I've very big into unbalancing my opponent to lead into a throw, and in Muay Thai I'm not bad at it, but you can't sweep or use a hip throw in Muay Thai. This Taiji throw seemed really unique and it follows the Thai rules perfectly. I'm not really sure how I would feel about using it in a bout, because I am loathe to drop my hands but I thought it was fun. Does anyone in here have experience with such a throw? Is it from Taijiquan or something else?
Was it like a pushing type motion or did he grab the opponenent's body with one hand and push with the other? Did his hips and legs actually make contact with the opponent or were they just used for momentum/power? Did he actually throw the person down with a body part used as leverage or did the person just fall from being pushed hard?
The first motion was a pushing motion, the one that caused the loss of balance. The legs did not make contact, but that might be because in Muay Thai rules you can't use leg sweeps (though you can use certain kicks). If I remember correctly he sort of used his left hand to uproot Xiao and I don't know, but it looked like the right hand was a guide or something near the waist. I think the left used a scooping motion counterclockwise to make impact with the body and lift and the right also moved counterclockwise. I didn't have a very good spectating position, but after that Xiao's firmer leg gave up its ground and he briefly went up in the air before making a bad breakfall
Well, it's hard to know specifically what it was without seeing it, since there are a great many moves in Taiji, both throws and others that will send the opponent flying onto their back. I would guess it was some sort of peng-jin (repulse/ward-off energy), one of the most typical concepts of Taiji. Taiji forms go through a constant process of opening and closing/expanding and contracting. The closing is designed to lure the opponent in or meld with his energy while simultaneously increasing one's owe potential energy. The opening is then used to send explosive energy back at the opponent, which could easily knock him on his back if done properly. Also, in almost all Taiji moves there is a "primary" hand/foot and a "secondary" one. You almost never attack with both hands simultaneously (though sometimes one right after the other) and the amount of weight on the legs is also always shifting back and forth. The "secondary" hand is usually used to brace the opponent or otherwise gently guide him into a position that will be advantageous for the attack that is going to take place. I would guess that he may have used the "secondary" hand to brace the opponent's waist while using the "primary" hand to push against his opposite shoulder? If done with good Taiji body mechanics (generating power with a coordinated rotating of all the joints, especially the hips, use of the dantian to power the strike), this could easily send an opponent flying.
The throw you talking about could have easily been a variation of a Muay Thai throw. Many of the Muay Thai throws you don't see that often - particularly not outside of Thailand. They are not the easiest techniques to practice, and depending on the judges... you may not get away with them without picking up a foul or a disqualification. Just because sweeps are not technically allowed doesn't mean that variations of them don't get used. They do and they're a mofo to deal with. There are lots of subtle little trips that can 'happen' as well. Two years ago I had a bout with another fighter... I spent 2/3rds of the match picking myself up off the canvas. He had the throws down pat and I never even saw them coming. Many trainers outside of Thailand don't really train them. In general it's the Thai's that I see using them. One particular move that sounds very similar to what you're talking about is: Khun Yak Pa Nang (Giant steals the girl) Generally this move is illegal. But I've seen it happen many times and not have a foul called. Originally the move was used in hopes that the opponent would hit the back of his head on the floor as he landed... concussing him or seriously injuring him. The counter for that, obviously is tucking the chin into the chest as your falling... the trick for the person employing the technique though is to keep your chin and head area close to your opponents as you break at the waist and bow... generally with all the sweat... your opponent slides right off of you and onto the mat or the back of his head. Anyhow - without seeing the technique first hand... that's my best guess.
I wouldn't get hung up on technique folks. For me technique is more blueprints - body mechanics is what it is all about.
It's hard to say--there are some tai chi chuan movements in the Yang family form I study that could be used as throws, but for the most part, when applying tai chi each of the applications is based on one or more of 13 energies. I would describe these energies as different kinds and ways of applying force. We study the form to get a sense of the movement, and then we study push hands to get a sense of how to use the 13 energies...but the sky's the limit in terms of what's possible. What you described sounds similar to unbalancing techniques I've used and seen others use but we do not (yet) train specific throws and I don't know if this will ever be part of the curriculm, although we often stop just short of throwing each other. We study how to find and know the opponent's center at all times, to stick with it, and apply various of the 13 energies to unbalance the opponent. This leads to a great deal of innovation as each person learns to use different basic techniques from the hand form but in ways that don't always look anything like the form movements. What you saw might have been push, push to press, embrace tiger, ward off, split, or any number of different things. Each of the 13 energies can be transformed into any of the others nearly instantly--the main thing is to know the opponent's center, and lead them into emptiness (unbalanced, no support), usually using their own momentum which you have re-directed right back at them in a circle so smooth they cannot evade. My guess is that Gao felt Xiao coming in, timed it so he could circle the energy back and push to the chest, then aided the off balanced Xiao with a little more help from the other hand by analyzing the direction of the imbalance and increasing the imbalance it by spinning it. (I find it's easier to recover from a push that is linear than one that is curved.)
