We probably have to narrow down your definition of "fight", but in lieu of that: From the Karateka I have sparred with, I would say you have to take them on a case-by-case basis. In general, I've found them easier to hit in the head than untrained people, as well as lacking the footwork, head movement and ability to effectively feint to work angles and gain entries. It's only a small sample though, and I couldn't tell you which styles they did. A couple have been a bit more free to move laterally and not rely on hugely telegraphed, if hard and fast, punches, but I don't know how much of that comes down to cross-training. I wasn't being disparaging when talking about these business-oriented Karate and TKD schools (well, apart from GKR...). Most people who go to those classes don't want to fight, not really. They provide a comfortable environment for physical exercise with a cultural component (even if that culture is far removed from the art's country of origin). The syllabus is orientated to be able to give anyone a sense of achievement. I think that's great for the people who are into it. I already said that my definition of TMA is pyjamas. You said you don't wear pyjamas to training, so I'm not talking about you. I do have to ask though; why didn't your grandfather teacher teach boxing and wrestling? Why don't you teach boxing and Muay Thai?