Amino Acids pre-workout?

Discussion in 'Health and Fitness' started by GhostOfYourMind, Mar 26, 2006.

  1. GhostOfYourMind

    GhostOfYourMind Bewaters lil Iron Monkey

    Just curious as to who uses amino acids pre-workout and whether it makes a difference or not? I've been reading up on them lately, and would also like it if any of ya'll could direct me to some more research on the matter. When it comes down to it, it seems that, even though it's a somewhat more expensive than regular protein, the benefits just may outweigh the costs (from what I've read so far). Opinions? :confused:
  2. Ad McG

    Ad McG Troll-killer Supporter

    Unless the rest of your diet is 100% dialled in, it's not worth it. I wouldn't even say then that it's worth it. Just take some whey pre-wo.
  3. GhostOfYourMind

    GhostOfYourMind Bewaters lil Iron Monkey

    How come? :confused: Also, got any articles for me to read? I need some stuff to read, I'm pretty bored right now...:D That reminds me, I need more whey as well. Maybe I should try a different flavor this time :D .
  4. Maverick

    Maverick New Member

    I'm assuming you mean take a specific set of amino acids as whey is made up of amino acids anyway. I agree with Adam in that it's not really worth the bother. I don't even think whey isolate is worth the bother (well, price) unless you are a pro BBer who has an extremely fine-tuned diet. Aside from the basics (whey, creatine, a healthy diet) I think there is very little effect from supplementation.
  5. harhar

    harhar I hate semaphores

    I think you are now starting to overemphasize the importance of diet. Diet plays a small factor in strength training (smaller than most people think).
  6. JKD_forever

    JKD_forever DEADLIFT!!!!!!!!!!!!

    yeah when it comes to strength training, pizza is A OK!! :D

    but yeah i agree..i take one serving of Surge pre-w and one post workout..
    come to think of it most of my money goes on surge damn...
  7. Jamo2

    Jamo2 The Louie Vitton Don

    Im sure there was an articule about this on T-nation.
    And diet playing a small role in strength training? I was under the impression diet played a big role in any kind of training.
  8. GhostOfYourMind

    GhostOfYourMind Bewaters lil Iron Monkey

    Thanks guys. Good to get everyone's opinions.

    JKD- Hellz yeah!:D
  9. harhar

    harhar I hate semaphores

    Nope. Look at dave tates diet in the t-nation article. Its one of the worst I have ever seen. And the dude is strong as an ox.
  10. blessed_samurai

    blessed_samurai Valued Member

    This stuff comes from my fav. nutritional researcher...Lyle McDonald

    Also from Lyle...
    "Arguably the biggest difference between food protein and powders (especially hydrolyzed/predigested) is in how quickly they get into the bloodstream. I could make a case for using a hydrolyzed protein powder right after workout, when you want to get aminos into the bloodstream as soon as possible. I could also make a case for eating some whole food protein about 2 hours before the workout, so it will still be digesting and releasing aminos into the bloodstream during and at the end of your workout."

    Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2003 Jan;284(1):E76-89. Epub 2002 Sep 11. Related Articles, Links

    Acute response of net muscle protein balance reflects 24-h balance after exercise and amino acid ingestion.

    Tipton KD, Borsheim E, Wolf SE, Sanford AP, Wolfe RR.

    Metabolism Unit, Shriners Hospitals for Children, Galveston, Texas 77550, USA.

    The purpose of this study was to determine if the acute anabolic muscle response to resistance exercise and essential amino acids (EAA) reflects the response over 24 h. Seven subjects participated in the following two 24-h studies: 1) resting (REST) and 2) rest plus resistance exercise and consumption of EAA (ES). Net balance (NB) across the leg was determined for four amino acids. [(13)C(6)]phenylalanine was infused to determine mixed muscle fractional synthetic rate (FSR). Twenty-four-hour FSR was significantly greater for ES than for REST (P = 0.003). Exchange of phenylalanine across the leg was -194 +/- 74 (SE) mg for ES and -371 +/- 88 mg for REST (P = 0.07) over 24 h and 229 +/- 42 mg (ES) and 28 +/- 15 mg (REST; P < 0.01) over 3 h corresponding to exercise and EAA consumption for ES. The difference in phenylalanine exchange between REST and ES was not different for measurements over 24 and 3 h. Increases in NB during ES were primarily the result of increases in protein synthesis. Results for other amino acids were similar. The acute anabolic response of muscle to EAA intake and exercise is additive to the response at rest and thus reflects the 24-h response.

    Conclusion (on my part): Eat enough over a 24 hour period of training and you'll be fine. We sweat the small stuff because supplement companies want us to.

    Food for thought...pre-workout intake is a bit of more importance or even during-workout intake is of a bit more importance than pure pwo. Amino acid supplementation is best done never and eating enough food/consuming whey will do the trick.

    let me know if you need more studies...but remember, I tend to be a bit on the lazy side. ;)
  11. blessed_samurai

    blessed_samurai Valued Member

    Something else I found interesting...
    From Lyle
    "...seriously, you are way overobsessing about something that, on a day to day basis, is not a huge deal for bodybuilders. Because glycogen depletion from the typical workout just isn't that big unless yo'ure doing
    a. old school 2-3 hour weight workouts
    b. doing a specific depletion workout.

    On a day to day basis, whether you get the perfect mix of dextrose/malto/fructose/whateverose around your 1 hour weight workouts is not going to be a big deal. When I was training Sarah, she'd have a little bit of candy about 30 minutes before, Gatorade+whey protein during, we'd eat a solid meal afterwards. She got stronger, bigger and, somehow, a little bit leaner"

    From Ivy and Portman
    "starting 10 minutes prior to and during workout:
    dextrose/malto/sucrose- 20-26g
    whey protein- 5-6g
    leucine- 1g
    vit C- 30-120mg
    vit E- 20-60IU
    sodium- 100-250mg
    potassium- 60-120mg
    magnesium- 60-120mg

    post workout:
    dextrose/malto/sucrose- 40-50g
    whey protein- 13-15g
    leucine- 1-2g
    glutamine- 1-2g
    vit C- 60-120mg
    vit E- 80-400IU
    this is based on weight<200 lbs, for >200 lbs increase post workout amounts by 50"

    Then from Aaron
    "if you look at the dose response stuff for protein synthesis, around 16grams whey (90% protein)/75kg male per hour is enough to basically peak protein synthesis.. a little more or a little less is not going to make a huge difference."

    Anyway, I'm bored now and going to go watch some X-Files.
  12. Maverick

    Maverick New Member

    Informative post Blessed. I did have my suspicions about these things :cool:

    I would *really* like to see a study that compares 3 groups of untrained individuals with similiar frame size, weight, height and testosterone levels, that after training for 6 months to get the initial adaptations, train for 6 more months, one with no diet changes, one supplementing with whey and creatine, and the other with a perfectly timed BBer diet with all mod cons.
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2006
  13. JKD_forever

    JKD_forever DEADLIFT!!!!!!!!!!!!

    excelent post
  14. Ad McG

    Ad McG Troll-killer Supporter

    Those articles you referred to are a couple of the references that people at avantlabs use to base their WO nutrition on ie. many believe that you don't need the insulin spike post-WO if you have good pre-WO nutrition because the amino acids will already be circulating.
  15. redsandpalm

    redsandpalm shut your beautiful face

    People will always come up with articles arguing for/against everything. Just try a bunch of things and see if your recovery time goes up or down or stays the same.
  16. Incredible Bulk

    Incredible Bulk Eat-Lift-Eat-Sleep-Grow

    i used to use amino acid tablets when i was bodybuilding... 1500mg tablet, they were big enough to choke on lol. :p

    i only used them as i my training was very hard going and i wanted to ensure all bases were covered regarding recovery and growth.

    if you plan on bodybuilding then use them as an addition to what should be an excellent diet.

    if its for martial arts, forget it, you'll be wasting your money.
  17. flaming

    flaming Valued Member

    I read part 1 of that did they follow it up they were going to change his diet or something. I read on crossfit that everyone has an uncle who eats bad, smokes and drinks and lives beyond 80, but people also know people who die at 40 due to a heart atack or something. I dont think ill throw out my fruit and whey for frozen pizzas just yet...
  18. Spidi

    Spidi Valued Member

    Well, atleast you know the pro's and con's of certain things, so you can try it out.
    Better than figuring it all out by yourself, isn't it?
  19. Durkhrod Chogori

    Durkhrod Chogori Valued Member

    Smart choice, that's why you are ranked as a topic moderator, right?

    Back to the original question: Waste of time and money.

    Eat a complex-carb meal before your workout.

  20. GhostOfYourMind

    GhostOfYourMind Bewaters lil Iron Monkey

    Blessed, thanks for the good stuff. I'm reading them now. Good stuff indeed. I think I've cleared up what I need to do for workout nutrition. As it is now, I drink milk all day, so I probably have plenty of amino acids flowing through my blood when I work out, but mine as well add a pre-workout shake to the mix, see how that aids me. I'll experiment I suppose...:D

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