I just love them dogs... [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7Yp6CGXRn4"]YouTube - American Staffordshire Terrier[/ame]
I would love to do some unneeded surgery on the git who mutilated that dog's ears. See how they like it.
I agree and would like to add that Pit Fighting is cruel and barbaric. I own an English Staffordshire and I can not for the life of me understand how anyone could subject such a loving and loyal breed of dog to such a cruel existence.... and enjoy it!!
grats to you Tiapan, you had the balls to say what I should have when I first viewed the post, bit of fear I suppose of fueling an argument I fully realize ppl have differant relationships with animals of all shapes and sizes in differant parts of the world but as a lifetime animal lover in genral and a bloke who openly admits to haveing to share a bed with an 11 year old staff/whip and a year old jack bitch nasty f***kin Ba*8rd dog named lily who i love like a child..........I hate ppl who abuse animals, if getting in the ring and useing your own ability to win a fights not enough god nows!
I absolutely love them, they are the most incredible dogs, such personalities! When I have a suitable place I really want a blue. Some people need to know how to own them though... Dog fighting though is disgusting, anyone who thinks it's ok does not deserve to be in charge of any animal, probably not kids either. In my family my mother has an am staff and an eng staff, so does my brother. My brothers boy we take hunting, his jaws are incredibly strong he can take down pigs up to around 130lb by himself, possibly bigger. Some people don't like to hear of that sort of thing but it's awesome exercise for them and it's what they're good at. Anyway...my mum's 2 and one of my brother's. The 2 in the bottom photo are my mum's, the left boy is still a pup, the girl on the right is sister to the boy in the first photo.
What I find odd is that people hate dog fighting but love what it has produced!? Without dog fighting you'd have no pitbull/amstaff/staffy to like. Also the hypocrisy of hating dog fighting but liking pig hunting? Eh!?!? Pigs are on a par with dogs intelligence wise. Why is cruelty to one OK but not the other? Personally I'd say pig hunting is more cruel than (properly) organised dog fighting if anything.
In NZ, wild pigs are classed as an official pest. They can rip up entire paddocks of farmland and acres of native bush and one sow can have up to 15 piglets in one litter. That's why we hunt them. When we kill them though, we do it as quickly and humanely as possible, we don't just let the dogs do what they want with them. In my opinion it's better getting your pork that way than from the tortured animals that are bred solely for eating. As an aside, staffies were bred specifically as the family friendly version of the pitbull, pitbulls and staffies are a different breed; they're not officially recognised as such in America but they are here. Pitbulls are on the public muzzling list here while staffies aren't. There's also the psychology of dog fighting. When the dogs fought, the owner would stay on the opposite side of the ring to them, as the dog was mostly fighting out of loyalty to its owner and would fight to the death for them. I'm not sure what you mean by "properly" organised dog fighting, but to say that pig hunting is more cruel is wrong from any angle. The differences between dog fighting and pig hunting are vast.
Having lived in Detroit, almost all of my experiences with pitbulls have been negative. I do (to the OP) however think the Thai Ridgeback is a fascinating breed. You ever see those around?
I can would guess you have an image in your mind of pig hunting as us running around with some dogs egging them on to kill some unsuspecting piggies for fun. I assure you this is not the case...sorry to go on it's just a bit of a sticking point as people often misunderstand...
Yeah I know. I recognise the need to control them. It's just that chasing them down and letting Amstaffs/pits drag them down is not the least cruel way to do it. Far from it. Shooting would be less cruel. Shoot them from helicopters like they do goats on the Galapogas islands perhaps? Believe yo me I know more than is healthy about bull breeds, pits, staffies, dog fighting and such. I was big into them back when Ed Reid first imported them into the UK and before they got banned. Owned a staffy for years and currently own Boxers. Not strictly true. Amstaff's are the show version of pitbulls. Which is why they tend to be stockier and superficially more visually impressive. That's not strictly true either. Pitbulls fight for all sorts of reasons but the main one is that they've been bred for centuries to see other dogs as something to try and kill. Loyalty can come into it but nothing will keep a pit fighting to the death if it doesn't have gameness. As I understand it when pits fight the owners are right next to them, often on the pit floor. By way of an example there was a dog called "Bullyson" back in the 60-70's (I think) that was so aggressive they used to chicken wire the him into the pit and bring him in muzzled. He'd even bite his onw handlers. He fought because he wanted to fight. OK..."proper" dog fighting is governed by extensive rules like boxing. Cajun rules I think the main version is called. There's rounds of a sort, weight classes and such. Under those rules a dog can quit fighting at any time and the fight will be over. This can surprise man people. As soon as one dog makes a "turn" (trying to get away) the dogs are separated and that dog must come up to scratch. If he doesn't the fight is done. Many dog fights are decided In just that way when one dog has had enough. Death when it does occur is when one dog is vastly outclassed, both are so game they won't quite, a stupid owner leaves his losing dog in too long or the fact that they can't seek good vetinary care afterwards. Believe you me a dog man doesn't want a dog that he's probably spent decades breeding dying. A deep game pitbull is a very valuable animal. What I'm saying is that the two dogs essentially "agree" to fight each other for as long as it takes for one to give up (if you can call centuries of breeding to be dog aggressive "agreement" on the dogs part but that's a separate issue). The pigs you hunt make no such agreement. They can't give up when they want. They can't make a "turn" and force a scratch, they can't jump the pit walls. And they definately die at the end. That's why I see it on a par with dog fighting. And note...I don't like or do either activity. Both are cruel.
I live in the middle of bull-terrier country, and there are loads of points-of-reference here to dog fighting and bull-baiting. The Bull Stake in Darlaston, the Bull Ring in Brum etc. While I appreciate the dogs' heritage, I am glad beyond belief that we have moved away from such barbarism as entertainment. I'm not a massive fan of how the American Staffie looks as I am a SBT fan. In my earlier years, I had two pedigree SBTs - and I think they are the finest breed of dog ever. Stalwart, redoubtable and incredibly proud dogs - and, like ALL dogs, don't need cropped ears, thank you.
First of all thanks very much for your highly informative post, i genuinely learnt some things. We actually do shoot the pigs if we can, we carry firearms while hunting for that possibility. But the terrain of NZ, heavy in native bush, often makes it difficult for that to be the simple solution. Harsh, but it's the reality. Without pig hunting, they would only spread worse than they are now. Nonetheless, I realise that it's not everyone's cup of tea. Much agreed
Oh and I say "proper" dog fighting as I think "proper" dog fightnig is probably very rare. Mostly what you get these days is two idiots that chuck their dogs in a pit and see what happens. They wouldn't know cajun rules if they saw them. I'm not that down on pig hunting. It's needed. However it's not consistent to say that it is not cruel while dog fighting (of the type I described) is. As I see it either both are cruel or neither is. One may be more needed than the other (dog fighting is for entertainment for example) but from a purely cruelty perspective I can't separate them.
Fair enough, from your description of dog fighting, with the dog allowed to turn and leave, pig hunting is on par. The way I look at it is simply that it's better than the way a lot of pigs are bred for eating, that has recently (2 years or so ago it was really brought up) been a fairly big issue here. At least the wild pig gets a better chance than those pigs, plenty of them can get away on us, especially the boars. I'll still keep it up anyway.
Must say, I don't like 'em. In my experience, bull terriers tend to be status dogs that people get because they want to bask in the reflected "hardness" of their dog, rather than because they like animals/pets. I'm sure that's not always the case, by any means, but it's certainly the association that I have with these breeds of dog.
Sadly, there is truth in that. As you say, not always the case, but the chavs and muppets do like their dangerous dogs - but IMHO, the only dangerous Staffie is a mistreated one.
Unfortunately you're by no means the only one. Plenty of people have misconceptions about these dogs, but the fact that that view is partly true doesn't help. Those that you describe are usually unable to raise these dogs with the right guidance, a bad owner can turn any dog into something to steer clear from, they just often happen to like staffies. EDIT: what he said with pommy lingo^^^
If you look at a Staffordshire Bull Terrier and see a dangerous dog, you're looking at the wrong end of the lead.
You may be a Moose in human form but you are correct. Personally I'd own a "status" dog if I lived as a hermit on a deserted island. I actually prefer not to see people when I'm out with my dogs as it always ends up wth slobber getting where it shouldn't.
