Policeman is right. The burglar was no longer a threat to Grandpa, and if he's not a threat, Grandpa can't shoot him.
Or alternatively, it be self-defense by the robber. (I didn't make the law. I'm just telling you how it goes.)
Due process. He punches you once. It was all he was interested in. He is charged. You punch him back. Fair's fair. So you are also charged. But considering the likelihood of the circumstances, he probably intimidated you first, shouted a bit, threatened you, bolstered himself, made a big show of it. He is charged with several offences. Lesson? Don't play the criminal's game, you can only lose. They can't only because they already have at the first instance. But there is a facility which means you don't have to just stand there getting beaten or losing your basic rights. Naturally it's very intricate, to cut down the scam factor. Private lawsuits require less unanimity for verdict than criminal, however. Careful about "grey areas" of Occupational Health and Safety, premise reports and residential permits. Any building must be safe in all accessable areas at all times or otherwise be declared unsafe/made inaccessable...or something like that. These cases let us all remain aware of such things we otherwise wouldn't know about.
Funny story, though possibly false: I guy breaks into a family's home while they're out on vacation. He's finished his robbing, and tries to steal one of the family's two cars out of the garage. Only thing is, that he never noticed that the door into the garage was locked, so as soon as it closed behind him, he was trapped. The second thing he forgot to notice was that the garage was the automatic kind, and there was no way to reach the manual switch. When the family comes home a week and a half later, they found the burglar in the garage, living off of a case of warm diet coke and catfood.
This is where the REAL US comes in. Something very important i have to tell you, "When the law becomes unlawful, you sure as hell better become unlawful yourself." This simply means you have to mess with the police to protect your OWN rights. Its sad you have to but you do, otherwise you'll end up like those robbery victims. So all I'm sayig is you have to play with the evidence and distort it so it looks like certain things happened that didnt REALLY. All it takes is a little brain power. When the police arrive, they don't know what happened. So its all in your hands. :woo: -----> :Angel:
The law makes it a sticky situation. But I wouldnt think about that if I caught someone breaking into my home. Id be thinking about protecting my wife and son. I dont know if the perp has a knife or a gun. I would finish the situation as quickly and brutally as possible. With whatever weapon I had available be it gun, knife or broom. There are some crazy people in this world and that could be one of them. If I had to deal with the law then so be it. I would prefer that to the other possibilities. If it means becoming 'unlawful' to protect my own then so be it. As for the clumsy burglar that trips in my home and twists his ankle (breaks leg, falls through ceiling, steps on caltrops... thats where those things went!). Getting reparation for something like that is insane. I cant imagine what a judge could be thinking in that situation. Personally if someone runs from me, still with a gun in hand (as per kenpoguy's grandfather) I consider him a threat to my life. He still has a gun and sure showed intentions of using it on me. Maybee just a tactical retreat? Yeah im probably over analyzing the situation. Without a doubt it is important to know how the laws affect you. Even if they dont always make sense.
How about a Disclaimer Hi All, In the land of the Free, the disclaimer seems to rule. You can find them on mostly everything you buy....sighting common sense and helping protect companies from frivolous lawsuits. You all remember the McDonald's hot coffee lawsuit back in 1994. Basically a 81 year old woman got a cup of hot coffee, spilled the coffee, was burned by the coffee and sued McDonald's. She was awarded 2.9 million dollars. http://www.vanfirm.com/mcdonalds-coffee-lawsuit.htm McDonald's coffee cups now have the warning that the coffee is hot and it will burn you. What if you, as a homeowner, had a sign warning what would happen to someone breaking into your home.....Something like: "All Ye who enter into this dwelling with malicious intent shall be Struck Down.....Twice."
That coffee case is just stupid. Because some old woman does not have the manual dexterity to remove a lid off a cup and she spills the contents on herself she gets a wad of cash. She had only herself to blame, she accepted the cup of hot coffee, she paid for it and then drove off. If I had been the judge I would have laughted my socks off at such a monumental waiste of time and money!
Please don't do this! Tampering with the evidence is about the worse thing to do. If you get caught you will have no credibility at all and almost guarantee any lawsuits going against you. Two other issues that have been brought up in this thread; You cannot use a "man trap" to protect your home or property. This would be any device designed to hurt or kill an intruder. As someone else said it is illegal becuse you are using lethal force to protect property. It is also really bad news for any firefighters trying to save your home or cops investigating why your front door is smashed in. You can only use lethal force to protect yourself or someone else from the threat of death or serious injury. Once the perp is fleeing the threat is gone. Don't be too hard on the judges. They don't write the laws and I expect if you checked most of these cases were tried in front of juries. You never know what a jury might do. John
It's eaiser to deal with... Unfortinuatly the way it's going it's going to be easier to deal with a murder charge pleading self defense than emotional and physical damages and lost wages of some flipping criminal. Too many criminals are not being punished. If the situation ever arises to anyone let Karma's swift blade of justice act through your sword. I feel that if someone enters my property with out my knowledge/etc they waive their right to continue living. If they don't belong there they shouldn't be there <period>
Keep in mind that these are unusual cases people have been quoting here. Victims don't usually get sued by criminals. I get threatened with lawsuits by criminals almost every week. So far only one went anywhere in 16 years of working in a jail and it was thrown out with prejudice. The only reason it got as far as it did was the inmate represented himself. No lawyer would have anything to do with it. I am expecting another one from a different "Jail House Lawyer" so 2 in my entire career so far. There are many more cases of people defending themselves against criminals where they were not prosecuted or successfully sued (at least in the US). Check out a copy of one of the NRA publications (American Rifleman, American Hunter or Guardian) which has a page of exsamples of defensive use of firearms every issue. It's too bad one of the MA magazines doesn't do the same for defensive MA use, it would make interesting reading. John
