All Things Ginga

Discussion in 'Other Styles' started by dormindo, Sep 21, 2012.

  1. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    The only time I sparred someone with appreciable skill in Capoeira, I was playing their game, and it was all flowing attacks, no ginga (incidentally they also taught Silat). I have no idea what style they taught, sorry.

    Having the odd bit of fun with people not so skilled, it was easy to rush them between their ginga steps. Again, I don't know what style, but they had a fairly upright ginga, though that could be due to strength/flexibility.

    I see it as an exaggerated form of the bouncing on the balls of the feet you see in many styles. If you keep a regular rhythm, your opponent will be able to predict when your balance is compromised, and when you will be able to launch attacks.

    As for high/low, lean back/forward, it would seem to me advantageous to practice all these things, as you will have more in your tool box to give you options of movement.

    I don't see anything wrong with the footwork per se, but from my outsider's perspective continuously and rhythmically performing it when there is no need is a waste of energy and giving way too much information to your opponent.

    Having said that, in the context of a game, I don't see any problem with it. It looks cool, fun, and great exercise.
     
  2. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    Or misinformation.
     
  3. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Possibly, but no-one is above the laws of physics.

    It's the rhythm that I was mainly talking about. I've seen Capoeiristas move in some interesting rhythms, but never with a truly broken rhythm.
     
  4. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    Indeed. And yet people are still capable of feinting, misdirecting, and generally getting the better of one another.

    Well, I think that's where this MMA thing is interesting. In a regular roda, the intent may not be to go full bore at an opponent. Obviously, there's an element of competition to the roda, including misleading and "scoring on" the other guy. But there seems like a different intent and mindset.

    So I'll be interested to see more of it in the ring, so we can see how the ginga and deceptiveness overall are employed. Though I suspect that, much like boxing, etc., much of it won't be easily seen by observers, as you're often talking about split-second variations in timing and sequence.

    Back to topic, how much time and attention is spent developing the ginga? In FMA, we spent weeks doing little else but footwork. And it always remained a central part of training. Same with JKD and Western fencing.
     
  5. dormindo

    dormindo Active Member Supporter

    Yeah, there definitely is a different mindset in the roda typically. Some of the deceptiveness is not always so evident even in the roda. I'd also add that some of the deceptive and misdirecting tactics that are fairly evident are thus because of the 'theatrical' aspects of the roda where the players are certainly aware of those watching and play up certain things for that audience. Those sort of things would likely revert to more subtle and purely functional types in an MMA setting (though obviously what works in the cage is not affected by my opinion).

    Ginga is trained all the time--at least in my angola experience--but development of it is another matter. Once the basic ginga has been taught, there are other drills to help develop it (including the breaking drill mentioned in my earlier post), but one is expected to further develop their own ginga and everyone's ginga is expected to be unique to themselves (not always what happens, though, and for more reasons than can be gone into in this brief post). So, a lot of personal responsibility is put on the further development of the ginga beyond an intermediate stage. Typically, a capoeirista can make some general assessments about another capoeirista by looking at their ginga and this assessment is not simply about the bells and whistles put on a ginga, as some very slick capoeiristas have deceptively simple looking gingas and some beautifully dancing players are doing just that--dancing (with all due respect).

    Any others want to comment on the specifics of their ginga training?
     
  6. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    So, I know that capoeira doesn't do weapons work on the scale of, say, FMA. But I also thought there was some... machete work? And I've heard accounts of capoeiristas (not lately obviously) fighting with razors in their toes. (That may very well be a bit of poetic license. I don't know.)

    Am I right about any of that? And, if so, does the inclusion of weapons change anything about the ginga?
     
  7. dormindo

    dormindo Active Member Supporter

    Machetes are used in maculele, though many capoeira groups also do a folkloric version of capoeira. As for old time capoeiristas, they used rocks, daggers, clubs, canes, axes and even razors, though I've not found an historic instance of actually using it between the toes.

    I should think that the inclusion of weapons would change the game a bit, though ideally (at least in angola) you should be moving in a way that keeps you clear of any retaliation from the other person--you should strike saindo (while leaving/exiting/escaping). The emphasis in capoeira on slipping/weaving/escaping rather than blocking does seem to have some background in evading weapons as well as blows, if you follow the work of Desch-Obi on capoeira origins in the nsanga.

    While the razor is mimicked as a movement in some angola games, I've not seen anyone train in it. I have heard rumors of senior students of certain mestres training it behind closed doors, but don't have anything concrete to tell anyone here. Mestre Curio can be seen in a film about Pastinha going after one of his students with a mock box cutter and that's about all I've seen. Theoretically, one's ginga should be agile enough to take one out of harm's way when a weapon is involved (well, as much as one can--I don't think anyone could avoid a weapon for too long unless one is running away:)), but if more people practiced with mock razors, it might make for interesting gingas. Maybe I'll get a couple of friends together and try it this February. I do expect to get marked. A lot.
     

Share This Page