All Things Ginga

Discussion in 'Other Styles' started by dormindo, Sep 21, 2012.

  1. dormindo

    dormindo Active Member Supporter

    Due to the recent thread on capoeira effectiveness, I wanted to start a thread on ginga. Whilst any discussion that covers a broad topic has to generalize, I did notice that ginga was covered in a rather general way. Interesting to me because I find ginga to be varying and not necessarily the clockwork like movement it is sometimes made out to be (though not as much in that thread).


    So, I wanted to find out from those of you who have done capoeira (even if it isn't your primary MA), what are your thoughts about ginga? Is it fun? Interesting? Useful? Does it fatigue you in comparison to the ready stance of other arts you've practiced? How is it taught where you've trained? Are there certain parameters one has to hit, or is there any degree of leeway?

    If you've sparred anyone from another MA, did ginga serve as a help or hindrance when facing someone who held a more 'typical' MA stance? Why?

    Those who have not ever done capoeira, what is your take on the ginga: is it wasteful? Predictable? Tricky? Do you have any thing you like about it? Anything you'd like to critique?

    Videos of what people consider to be good gingas are welcome here, though with an explanation of why you think so.
     
  2. dormindo

    dormindo Active Member Supporter

    In my own training, ginga has been quite enjoyable and my use of it has changed over the years, from it being some sort place marker in between sequences of movements to being just another part of how I move and make use of the space between me and the other jogador when playing in the roda.
     
  3. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    I only did Cap for a few months so pinch of salt time but I now use the ginga as a low impact warm up movement, early in a workout.
    You're not bouncing about or stressing the joints to much, it uses the arms as well as the legs, you can twist and pivot as you do it (I tend to move about and face different directions) and it feels more "martial" than some light jogging or star jumps so fits with the tone of what I'm doing.
    It fatigues me more than my "ready stance" because I tend to be failry conservative in movement (Thai stance basically).
    I don't tend to use it in sparring but I like the step and then pivot footwork although it doesn't look like a ginga when I spar.
     
  4. dormindo

    dormindo Active Member Supporter

    Thanks, PASmith. I use it to warm up, too, in preparation for my (non capoeira) exercise regimen. Some good points raised, too, about the ease on the joints and full body movement.
     
  5. dormindo

    dormindo Active Member Supporter

    Oh, and PASmith, did you find any different perspective from doing ginga, as someone with a previous background in other MAs?
     
  6. BlueDot

    BlueDot New Member

    I'd say that a good ginga has a mix of angola and regional flavors in it. It's not a simple left to right dance step, but a very organic and fluid method of movement, as opposed to a single motion that can be summarized as step here, then here, then back to there. A good ginga is open to modification and customization.
     
  7. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    I've never done capoeira myself, though I've read a lot about it over the years. What I've observed of the ginga, I quite like. In FMA, the footwork is very much based on angles. Triangles to be specific. Zoning into the momentum of an attack to snuff it before it builds up. Or away from the momentum to allow it to dissipate before it reaches you. I see that same strategy at work in the ginga.

    I would need to have more direct experience of it to say whether the rhythmic aspect of it would make me too predictable. I don't find capoeiristas predictable myself because I don't even know the physical vocabulary. When a dude looks like he's falling over, next thing I know he's upside down kicking someone in the neck. But for someone with a better idea what to expect, I guess I do wonder how much of a telegraph the ginga is. Though I also get there there are lots of direction changes and plenty of different attacks that can be thrown from each position in the ginga.

    I do like that it's dynamic. I try to keep moving in my footwork. No dramatic freeze frame moments waiting for the person to make the first move. I'm too slow for that off the block.
     
  8. dormindo

    dormindo Active Member Supporter

    Thanks, ap! I have a friend that I now wish were a member of MAP. He used to train with the group that I'm with here in Houston, but is now training silat and tai chi. He has mentioned before the similarities he feels between footwork and even some of the movements of the arms in the two arts. Next time I see him, I'll have to ask him to go into more detail.
     
  9. dormindo

    dormindo Active Member Supporter

    Not sure I follow: how do you mean 'a good mix of regional and angola flavors'?
     
  10. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    Do, yeah! I'd be interested to hear.

    I vaguely remember an article from Black Belt magazine years ago comparing the two (capoeira and eskrima). And the footwork was a big part of it.
     
  11. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    Are you able to show us any examples (either of yourself or others) via youtube? It's not something I'm familiar with, but that doesn't mean I'm not interested in discovering more. :)
     
  12. Rand86

    Rand86 likes to butt heads

    Ask and ye shall receive:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV-Sf5-aCcc"]Capoeira - Basic Steps - Ginga - YouTube[/ame]
     
  13. dormindo

    dormindo Active Member Supporter

    Thanks, Rand.

    JWT, it's also not uncommon to see a variety of other movements and breaks in direction or cadence, or changes in level (particularly in capoeira angola) as illustrated in the video below (the video is an example a bit exaggerated: one wouldn't necessarily look just like this guy, but you get the point):

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbL0r6l626s"]A ginga na capoeira angola - YouTube[/ame]
     
  14. dormindo

    dormindo Active Member Supporter

    Funnily enough, I'm having difficulty finding some good videos of capoeira angola gingas, as it tends to be done sporadically during a game. Will look for some this evening.

    Edit: Spoke too soon. At the :50-:58 mark in this video you see a basic angola ginga. From about 1:13-1:42, you see very theatrical gingas from both players.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naacHX2P054"]FICA DC Rodathon 2009 - YouTube[/ame]
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2012
  15. BlueDot

    BlueDot New Member

    Well, the regional ginga is methodical, simple, and less risky in it's execution. Angolan is much more spontaneous, improvised, complicated, and dangerous.

    I'd say merging typical footwork with regional ginga with short bursts of angolan ginga could constitute a good system of footwork.

    Of course, I know significantly less about angola capoeira techniques than other styles.
     
  16. dormindo

    dormindo Active Member Supporter

    Had forgotten about having started this thread. No need for a new one, then.

    As alluded to in the other thread, I am very interested in the variability of ginga--though variety is not the typical attribute of ginga as commonly represented. There are the standard gingas used by capoeiristas in film portrayals, the video clip that I've seen on several occasions of some capoeirista fighting a kickboxer and getting knocked out due in part to his predictable ginga (and out of range attacks) and so on.

    However, I'm accustomed to variety, with the older members of our grupo, the mestres I've trained with and so on. There is a diagram of ginga footwork patterns, from the '40s/50s I think (I believe it's in Lewis' Ring of Liberation), that demonstrates something a bit different from the pyramid/box pattern that many are familiar with, with more lateral and diagonal movement and more reminiscent of footwork patterns for tango or something like that. Some videos of Mestre Patinha released a few years ago elicited many comments about how different his ginga is from those typically seen today.

    Just some random ramblings on ginga.

    I'll reask the questions outlined above to those interested.

    What are your thoughts about ginga? Is it fun? Interesting? Useful? Does it fatigue you in comparison to the ready stance of other arts you've practiced? How is it taught where you've trained? Are there certain parameters one has to hit, or is there any degree of leeway?

    If you've sparred anyone from another MA, did ginga serve as a help or hindrance when facing someone who held a more 'typical' MA stance? Why?

    Those who have not ever done capoeira, what is your take on the ginga: is it wasteful? Predictable? Tricky? Do you have any thing you like about it? Anything you'd like to critique?
     
  17. dormindo

    dormindo Active Member Supporter

    Quite late, I know, but how is the angola ginga riskier than the regional one? Would not being methodical mean being predictable and, therefore, risky? Just looking for more clarification on your remarks.
     
  18. dormindo

    dormindo Active Member Supporter

    To address again ap's question about leaning back in ginga, you'll see here at the 1:40 mark of this video that the player does it to avoid the unconventional attack coming at him--and this is what I'm accustomed to seeing in terms of leaning. This game also has bits of unconventional things being done as ginga throughout.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3u6VzHM2eTo"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3u6VzHM2eTo[/ame]
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2013
  19. Bozza Bostik

    Bozza Bostik Antichrist on Button Moon

    @ Dormindo.

    The Angola ginga is clearly different than the one we do in Senzala. But is there much difference between the ginga in Regional and Contemporânea?

    How do you learn to improvise when doing the ginga in Angola? Are you sort of taught this...or do you just copy others, get outside influences? Is there any structure/rules to the improvisation or can you just do what you want?
     
  20. dormindo

    dormindo Active Member Supporter

    Well, I'll leave the answer to your first question to someone more experienced in regional and contemporanea to answer, though I will say from the outside looking in that in regional the ginga does seem more upright and that in a number of contemporanea schools, the ginga is lower with more of a bend from the waist and the feet spread fairly far apart. But, as I said, I'll leave it to someone more in the know.

    As for learning ginga in angola, it has been all of the above things you mention in my experience. Initially, I was taught a very basi ginga and was given reasons for why things were done just so. From there, I and others that I know would emulate our teachers, other mestres, contramestres and students that we thought were really good and built on it from there. One drill we often had to do was to 'break' our ginga, meaning making changes in level, footwork, directional movement or even going into an attack or defense on command out of ginga. Having to do this was quite challenging in the beginning, but quickly gets you out of doing ginga as an unchanging left/right/back/forward undulation without awareness.

    On top of that, what has affected my ginga has been a) training to transition from ginga to attack, defend, change levels, move aroundt the other person/roda--essentially a refining of the breaking process mentioned above and b) playing other people. The first has made my ginga more fluid and mobile, yet more sunken in to ease transition to the floor and in so doing, making the ginga feel far more moment to moment and far less repetitive. The latter has made me more honest about feints, small motions used to slip attacks and footwork. All of these things have combined to make ginga feel quite open to improvisation based on the need at the moment.

    Ironically, though, we don't ginga that much when we play.
     

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