Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Blade96, Jan 15, 2014.
So if he is incorrect?
Good problem solved and no accommodation needed then
Yes but according to Sandninja all the muslims in all of those countries are doing it wrong and aren't proper muslims and should be doing Islam the way he says it should be done.
He knows how it should be done better than all the muslim scholars and imams in those countries.
Islam is the best religion there is for women.*
*This is sarcasm. Most religions are bad for women because most religions are controlled by sexist men and were made up at a time when men held all the power.
You could, but that would be your insecurity talking, so I forgive you for it.
If you were to call me a closed-minded fool because you think I'm anti-Islam, you'd be wrong to do so. I have nothing against Islam. I think, as a product of its time, it is rather sophisticated and it has served the cultural, ethical and technical advancement of humanity well.
But religion is not an excuse for behaviour. Ultimately a person is responsible for their own words and deeds, not their gods.
Your assumption that all men would feel unhappy about another man touching their partner's genitals in a medical examination or procedure smacks of high school level possesiveness and jealousy.
Maybe it's because of all the times, both my partners and myself, have had medical professionals of the opposite sex delving in-and-around our undercracker regions. The idea of my girlfriend getting jealous of the poor female doctor who has to stare at my butcher's window whilst examining my prostate is hilarious.
There is no moral dimension to this, as far as I am concerned. Consensual genital touching is not immoral.
A person's body is as public or private as they want it to be.
That holds true from 800-1100 A.D. until the influence in 12th century by Imam Hamid al-Ghazali who introduced mathematics being the work of the devil. Skip to about 6:50 of the video.
Wiki Article on him: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Ghazali
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fl1nJC3lvFs"]The Intellectual Collapse of Islam - YouTube[/ame]
I agree with that, but at the same time I'm curious how much of that can be directly blamed on Islam. With a couple of exceptions aren't quite a few of those countries also on the list of poorest economically developed? I think Islam can take the brunt of the blame for gender equality problems there but I'm always a bit cautious about laying the blame solely there. A lot of the problems the ME has seem to get blamed on them being muslim and ignores other factors like poverty and lack of education. The former contributing quite a bit to the latter.
I'm happy to accept I could be wrong on that one but its something I wonder.
Makes me wonder if there's a chart associating religion and poverty as well. In the video I linked above it also discusses the ramifications on a society when they abandon sience/free thinking, and it's strongly associated with economics and education. That's Neil Degrasse Tyson's spin on his science preaching actually; scientific literacy transfers directly into economic status.
Well...as far as I can see Islam is as much culture as it is religion.
It forms the basis for governments, sharia law, societal structures, education, gender dynamics, etc etc.
It's woven into the very fabric of many societies.
So it surely has to shoulder some of the blame if those societies are stricken with poverty and a lack of education?
Seeing as those societies are, at least in part, formed "around" Islam?
I mean...if lack of education is a problem how about shutting down madrassas and instead of teaching children to mindlessly bob their heads while reciting the koran you teach them actual facts about the universe and how to go about sorting fact from nonsense?
Better education would lessen poverty.
As far as I'm concerned you can't have Islam being, or made to be, such a force in society and then also absolve it of blame when those societies fail.
That's all fair. It just seems weird that a place that used to be the centre of civilisation and advancement under Islam became one of the worst developed places in the world while also under Islam and then blame that on Islam. I don't think anything you said is wrong mind you and obviously the "advancement" back then was very different to what being "advanced" means now but it's what makes it feel weird to me.
Violence is against my religion. Therefore, nobody is allowed to punch or attack me when I am training at the dojo.
What if this guy gets attacked by a gang or female thugs on the street? that would actually be pretty funny.
I can think of worse fates...
The guy should train ninjutsu. No physical contact necessary.
I think you're getting confused with "no touch knockout" kiai. This thread can go on debating religious belief and martial arts until the cows come home, but the real danger out there is the mentalist quasi-religious muck that is kiai: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0ZWFb7UNjE"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0ZWFb7UNjE[/ame]
(Just to keep on topic, I have seen enough guys who squirm at the thought of practicing with women without turning to religious justification...)
Like Ero-Sennin said, Islam was progressive until 1100AD but has been insular and regressive since then (whether you blame al-Ghazali or Nizam al-Mulk). The decay of the Islamic world began with a cultural shift which saw increasing hostility towards science.
Unlike Christendom which followed the Dark Ages with the period of Enlightenment, Islam is still stuck in a cultural and scientific rut. According to http://en.qantara.de/content/the-decline-of-islamic-scientific-thought-dont-blame-it-on-al-ghazali India and Spain each produces more scientific literature than all of the Muslim countries combined, and the 57 states' contribution to science globally amounts to no more than 1 per cent and is generally of lower quality.
The backwards slide of the Islamic culture is quite sad, because at it's peak it was a real leader in scientific thought. This should serve as an example as to what happens to a culture when they collectively turn their backs on science and rationality.
You do have a point there but it's incredible hard to separation culture, economy and religion especially in non-secular nations. Basically you won't be able to tell cause from effect.
For example, if half your population (women) is being denied education and is illiterate, is it any wonder your economy sucks?
He asked, I answered. Truthfully, might I add. :Angel:
Oh lawd, not that crap again...there's been a couple of threads on that and every time it's just painful...
Well I think another point worth thinking on here is that Afghanistan in the 1960's was a relatively pro-west liberal democracy.
We should remain skeptical of this "forgotten world" narrative that suggests that the Middle East is a backwards place that didn't evolve thanks to Islam as a whole.
I think what is a better answer in terms of "Why do countries like Saudi Arabia treat women in such a contemptuous way?" is more centered around the rise of a particular form of Islamism thanks to some pretty extreme social and economic conditions: here I make reference to the fact that the period through which most western nations experienced social modernization was one in which countries like Afghanistan were trapped in a cycle of brutal civil wars.
I often wonder how Britain would look culturally if it hadn't had the liberty of developing industrially and culturally within a fairly stable domestic environment. My guess is that we'd probably be more religious and those religious people would also probably be more Fred Phelps than they are today.
Historically, Afghanistan has been a very bad place for women. In 1928 Amānullāh Khān was forced to abdicate after a revolt caused partially by his attempt to move towards a more equal society by removing strict traditional restrictions on womens clothing and increasing education for girls. The 60's and 70's saw new attempts at imposing equality, but this only had an impact on the urban areas, and rural areas remained unchanged.
In 1978 the communist People's Democratic Party of Afghanistan seized power in the Saur Revolution and declared equality of the sexes. The uprising against the PDPA saw the rise of the mujahideen (who were very oppressive towards woman). Eventually the PDPA fell, and the Taliban were installed in power as rulers of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan. Women were banned from working or attending schools.
A reasonable timeline of the history of Afghanistan can be found here: http://www.pbs.org/wnet/women-war-and-peace/uncategorized/timeline-of-womens-rights-in-afghanistan/
So, yes you are sort-of correct I guess. The broader picture is that Afghanistan has been a terrible place for women, other than in urban areas during a period of 15 years (1964-1979).
Yeah my point here is simply that it isn't clear that Afghanistan is in the position that it is because in neglected "science and reason". I admit there is definitely a link between a healthy intelligentsia and better living conditions for all but while these things improve society's functioning it's pretty hard to build that kind of infrastructure in what is, frequently, a war zone.
Attributing Afghanistan's problems to simple lack of science overlooks the fact that it is a former colony that has spent most of its modern history as a playground for other super-powers and stage for civil war. Is the political unrest and brutality of Afghanistan caused by the lack of education or is the lack of education caused by the brutality and political unrest? It's all very chicken and egg.
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