I am currently doing Wing Chun and I want to compliment it with an Internal style. I want less as possible on the martial element and more on the breathing (especially the breathing techniques) any suggestions?
Hi Starman. It would be very hard to address your question on the Net because it'd require a lot of writing and creating human figures that symbolise the movement used in those breathing exercises you are after. My best suggestion would be purchasing a book on the matter. I recommend the following: The Tao of Health, Sex, & Longevity - Daniel P. Reid 1989 Fireside 406 pages ISBN 0-671-64811-X Read more at Amazon.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Complete Book of Chinese Health and Healing: Guarding the Three Treasures - Daniel P. Reid 1994 Shambhala 496 pages ISBN 1-57062-071-7 Read more at Amazon.com Daniel Reid is a Taoist to the core. Very practical, no bull. He is one of my masters. And above all follow the general recommendation given in the following link. Master it until becomes part of your essence: http://www.holistic-online.com/Yoga/hol_yoga_breathing-Taoist.htm Good luck, Gerard.
Thanks guys, 1. I know of Tai Chi but I've been told that there are many types and each one focusing on different elements. 2. Again thanks for those suggestions Gerard, I will order them straight away, however I was looking more for recommendation to a particular style because with all the will in the world its as you quite rightly say in your post it difficult to follow something in writing but much easier to be shown
Tai chi: Chen style is probably too martial for your tastes, try Yang style, where you can choose which elements to emphasise. Also, you'd probably like Hsing-I, as the fighting style is (superficially) similar and most of the focus of the art is mental concentration and breathing/focusing techniques, a lot more than standard tai chi.
Another option could be to complement your wing chun with a good qigong-- this includes the breathing and internal power, but without any of the fighting techniques.
A weird option... I have an option that you might like... When i perform my Shuri-Ryu kata's, rather than performing them all hard and under tension.. i also do them again soft, with more flowing techniques focussing more on breathing... There are similar moves in all styles even internal arts have similar motions to so called external arts... they are just performed at different tempo's, contractions, and breath patterns.. Most traditional styles have the elements of internal and external within them you just have to find to find them and utilize them. There is a backhand block for example in Shuri-Ryu that is identical almost to a Tai Chi movement that is used for strengthening the lungs and increasing Ki flow to the lungs. The exact same movement except in Shuri-Ryu its performed hard and with a snap with much force... in Tai Chi its performed slow and with deeper breathing.
Jeff, when you get to the level of being an advanced IMA you'll realise that the distinction between internal and external is just academic. At the meantime focus on your breathing, mind in the lower dantien as chi reservoir, guide chi wherever you feel it needs to go, and finish collecting chi in lower dantien. I hope this helps.
wing chun Allo... I agree with another poster (nzric), that you try Hsing-I. I've had the fortune of meeting a father and son who studied Wing Chun and saw that there were similarities in movement between the two arts like inch-stepping( And yep...as nzric said, the similarities are superficial...the foci/emphasis of either arts are different...). I've been taught, though, that the mindset for Hsing-I's 'intention' tends to lead to a somewhat aggressive mindset for the practitioner... I love Hsing-I regardless...(but getting santi right is a pain...) Just my two cents...
hello- ive just started learning xingyi- its a very cool art- i am also a practitioner or yang style long form- most of the people who learn yang style learn it in the way that you would probably want to learn it (more internal stuff)- some people think of tai chi as like moving meditation or qigong- with that said- the tai chi applications are very powerfull with throws strikes and locks. xingyi is based off of the five element theroy (wood fire earth metal water) xingyi takes root in northern sholin kung fu- the basic five energies come from the five fists- which i have just learned pi quan- splitting fist beng quan- smashing fist zuan quan- drilling fist pao quan- pounding fist and heng quan- crossing fist the five fists techniqe are expressed through the 12 animal forms. hope that helps
Reply... Just academic is kinda what i figured. Thanks for the input, i have been trying out some Tai Chi and Qi Gong on my own, but their is no one around that instructs such classes. So ive been trying to blend it with what i know. Performing my kata with their ideals (breathing, visualization, etc.) until i can learn their forms. Seems the stance structures are the same so i can get away with this until i find a good internal instructor i suppose. You have any more info you want to share on it drop it my way, always wanting to learn about MA...
Jeff, when practising on your own be careful. Don't push hard. Working with energy is like playing with fire (which is a form of energy anyway), you can get easily burned. I recommend you to find a master (if you can), otherwise purchase: Opening the energy gates of your body (safest method available on Qigong) by B.K. Frantzis. You will play safely, however when blockages arise... Then let me know. However I am not a master but I can tell you stuff that personally happened to me and how to correct it. Again this stuff in writing would be incomplete. Gerard.
I've done Wing Chun before.....now into Internal Arts I have done Wing Chun and Bagua for 1 year . I have stopped Wing Chun but continued with Bagua. U might already be familiar with Bagua ( Pakua), it is one of the 3 Internal Martial Arts. I was happy to discover some striking similarities. As u know Wing Chun is strictly external and from Shaolin Temple, but probably the "softest" of the Extermal Arts. Whereas Bagua is from Wudang Temple. I discussed this with my Bagua Master, and he is also of the belief that Bagua and Wing Chun might have some common ancestry way back several hundred years. Wing Chun is only about 250 years old, Bagua was first made public by Dong Hai Chuan 160 years ago, but it's probably hundreds of years older because it was taught in secret only to Taoist priest and transmitted to only a select line. Here are SOME similarities: 1. Low kicks only 2. Emphasis on turning/ swivelling to minimise an attacking blow 3. Explosive force thru non muscular means 4. Bong Sau ( alien to other Shaolin based styles) 5. Dai Bong / Wu sau combination 6.Emphasis onmaintaining circular structures ( limbs) 7.That awkward and unique "traingular" stance 8. Absence of warmUps/ stretching sessions mandatory fro all other External styles 9.Emphasis on yielding instead of resisting 10. Emphasis on efficient body mechanics What Bagua has that WingChun doesnt: 1. Circular - avoidance footwork 2. Very few punches in Bagua 3.Emphasis on Chikung / Qigong 2.Some posture require u to squat low
Not really! I have done 4 External Styles and 2 Internal ones and I can tell you they are different in Philosophy, Technique and longevity. If you want to get training induced arthiritis , I 'd recommend taking External Martial Arts. There are enuff HORROR stories in my Bagua class from ex-Shaolin people
Actually, I have to agree with Gerard on this one as I have never really liked the whole internal/external classification thing. I personally don't believe there to be any significant difference between the two so called external & internal arts. What I have always found quite humorous is the fact that it is almost always internal martial artists that use it, as if they need to impact upon some kind of fact. Sure, there are many presumable reasons that an internal martial artist could theorise and present as evidence to give cause to such a split classification to be necessary, but anybody who has ever studied an 'external' martial art with any serious could quite easily and rightly show evidence of such attributes in their own systems.
Thats not 'external' martial arts, just poor training methods. As always, you just have to use common sense.
This is the reason why I have sworn never to learn any Kung Fu, especially Internal Arts from a teacher who doesn't have a working knowledge of Chinese...doesn't matter if they are Caucasian or not. This Internal - External classification is a significant thing, but seems to have been over rationalised and trivialised in the West by inadequately informed parties.
Well, I've sworn to never learn from anyone who cannot touch their nose with their tounge, so fair enough. Can you elaborate on how you feel the Internal - External Classification is a significant thing? In what respect?
The classification of internal/ external has become a western distinction for what in China is called Inner Door Student/ Outer Door Student. The Inner Door student was in the school seeing and hearing what the teacher taught, while the outer door student spied over the fence and only saw what was being taught. The point being it all depends on how your teacher learned, or his teacher, his teacher's teacher. You get the point. All Chinese styles and even some of the Japanese styles should have internal practices, the difference now is whether or not they are considered a secret that can only be taught after so many years.
Wing Chun and the Internal arts Internal = indoor student?!? What a laugh!!! Anyway, trivial definition mishaps aside.... Currently, the people who I know are pretty damn good in the region of London who might be able to help your training: Yang-Style Tai Chi with: Master John Ding http://www.taichiwl.demon.co.uk/jdiatcc/ Wu Style Tai Chi/Beijing Ba Gua with: Chris Chappel. Senior Student UK of Master BK Frantzis. www.realtaoism.com Gao-Style Ba Gua with Aarvo Tucker: Senior Disciple of Master Eric Lo (Very Well respected master!!!) www.palmchange.com I trust these guys as they have delivered the goods in terms of internal training. Trust me, I've gone through a tonne of instructors who were only focussed on the external or didn't know what they were talking about. A classic example is when a "tai-chi" guy I met once said that it was a "soft-style" as they didn't beat people up.......RRRIIGHT!!! Another one was when a class said that they were "Chi-Gung" style Tai Chi.....*sigh* Jesus, it's no wonder people take this **** out of you if you say you do Tai-Chi. There's so much rubbish out there and they aren't even aware of it. Anyway, why these styles? Well.....here's my theory, and bear mind it is only a theory, but an interesting one to boot. *Axioms* Wing Chun is supposed to be a very easy to learn style and quick..... Wing Chun was created to form a trained army against the Manchurians regardless of which version of the creation you've heard. Wing Chun is a Taoist art. Now, there's something that doesn't quite add up with modern Wing chun. Some of the stuff I've seen is so rigid....hardly lives up to Taoist principles. I've seen some of the high-end Tai-chi and it looks like some high-end Wing Chun I've seen, but with extra toppings! And centre-line theory......How exactly is possible to get a perfect straightline punch using your arms?!? They're joined at the shoulders at the side. I suspect moving along the centre line is actually a spiral, one that's very small. esp with Chain punching. I'm increasingly starting to believe that Wing Chun was the creation of some Taoist masters as they realised that to create a full army of internal artists, within a short period of time would have been ridiculous as Chi cultivation can't be sped up more than it is supposed to develop. So, it is my belief that Wing Chun was created as a kind of go-between. Taking the external shell of the internal arts and using the more effective and high-end parts** that would work anyway against a Manchurian soldier, as it would be unlikely that the user would have to take on a fully-fledged Internal Master. With this shell, it would also be possible later on to add internal components and extend their learning to proper Internal arts. Obviously, without the fully-fledged Chi, the tactics and strategy would have to be altered to as we are now dealing with a different tool set available. e.g. The way it appears sometimes is that Wing-Chun is like being a sniper *accuracy of the shot from a strategic position out of harms way. If you had the martial-arts equivalent of a tank, getting out of the way of enemy fire is hardly an issue. Anyway, hope things are good in your training!! **-Wu style has very very tight spirals that almost look like a straight line!
