Abs work out question

Discussion in 'Health and Fitness' started by MindTricks, Apr 2, 2013.

  1. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Didn't that stupid practice get dropped in the 70's?
    There are much safer ways to promote good ab's and the ability to take a shot than that.
     
  2. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    As for ab drills to 'toughen' up your abs like we do in boxing - there are a few different components... probably the biggest of which is mental. You need to get over the flinch response to being hit in the mid section. That in conjunction with hardening up your mid section (rectus abdominus/obliques) is going to go a long way to improve your ability to take a shot.

    Taking a shot in boxing is comprised of mental fortitude/physical conditioning/breathing. Pretty much in that order. A good boxer will watch his opponents breathing and look to place a keen bodyshot while his opponent is inhaling. The shot to the body in that states causes no end of problems for the opponent. The same well placed shot landed while the opponent has exhaled and is in lockdown stage is much less significant.

    Not all bodyshots land in the same area and there are some areas you can not toughen up beyond the mental no matter what you do. James Toney knew that and he could rip a body shot that wouldn't leave almost anyone standing. It's a sweet spot... look at your annatomy - there are places where you can't really add all that much muscle mass - or if you do... it's not really going to be any advantage in boxing. That's the reality of it. Look at how your ribcage is built and where the bulk of the muscle on your torso sits. Give it some thought. I've trained under guys who were sparring partners with James Toney and they have it down. They train it. Day in day out. And it works... time and time again.

    I'll also second what others have said about the 6-8pack being more a function of your body fat content and diet than it is down to training. This is why you can see big fat laden guys that are strong as oxes - but don't look it... Mark Hunt is a great example of someone with lots of body fat around the midsection... yet no doubt he's got one hella solid wall of abs underneath it all.

    Anyhow I digress.... to get over that flinch response to shots to the midsection - check out medicine ball drops to your abs with your trainer/coach/partner. Flat on your back and have him hit you with the medicine ball. He holds it at a first... slowly getting you accustomed to taking shots to the mid section. Not just square on but also your sides. He's not there to smash you to bits - but to slowly work towards getting rid of that twinge everytime you take one. You also need to work on contracting and holding and breathing so that you can endure such shots without getting winded. Once you have the flat on the back version down progress to a standing version... from your boxing stance and work from there... in my estimation the carry over is far greater as you have a greater recruitment of musculature throughout the whole body while standing and it mimics your stand while contending with a body shot. Laying flat is only a starting position.... for good carry over go standing. Similar to the way that runners should be training their core standing and dealing with rotational torque - as opposed to a regime of laying flat on their back core exercises.

    It's not a one time affair. If you're boxing - you should have some of this conditioning worked into your training on a regular basis.

    +1 one to anyone who can name the boxer in this pic! :D
     

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    Last edited: Apr 3, 2013
  3. Simon

    Simon Moved on Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

  4. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    Excellent vid there Simon! That's a time tested conditioning drill. The beauty of that is that you're on your feet - dealing with shots coming in... as you say not trying to break... but more breaking the bad habits that the flinch causes... hands go wide... elbows instinctively drop because they weren't in the proper place to begin with - then the chin and face become opened up and it goes downhill from there.

    Exactly that type of drill while stood up has massive carry over to good boxing technique!
     
  5. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Hard to tell but it looks like Joe Frazier to me.

    Anyway...we do Simon's body conditioning drill all the time in Shidokan (although we do it bare-knuckle).
    Usually a few rounds of that before actual sparring. We also do the thigh kicks, front kicks to abs and knees to abs that were mentioned too.
    An important point I think is to make sure the hitter is also training their strikes. Not getting sloppy or fixated on the target. Keeping a good guard and stance.
     
  6. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    +1 Joe Frazier in the build up to Thrilla in Manila!
     
  7. Ero-Sennin

    Ero-Sennin Highly Skilled Peeper Supporter

    Great post Slip!

    While I haven't developed the amount of skill yet to tune in to the breathing of somebody I'm sparring, I can definitely tell when I've landed a body shot to the abdomen that caused my training partner some woes. We like to call it the "wookie call" or the "big foot call" at the gym because the person will let out a big "hoooooooooo." While there are certain spots to aim for body shots (obliques, thin muscle layer on top of the ribs, an the sides) that can be effective whether the guy is breathing and reacting right or not, I've landed plenty of great but ineffective body shots to the center line of the abdomen when the guy is breathing and taking the punch correctly.

    There is no limit to the variations of toughening up the abdominals and learning to take a shot correctly. The most interesting one I've seen as of late was Troute doing hanging leg raises while his trainer hit his sides with a stick.
     
  8. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    There's rarely a better feeling than landing a body shot "just right".
    That solid feeling you get that tells you "he felt that one". :)
     
  9. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Of course the Japanese have to go a bit further than other people. :)

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kB4fCdDj0KE"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kB4fCdDj0KE[/ame]
     
  10. Count Duckula

    Count Duckula Valued Member

  11. Ero-Sennin

    Ero-Sennin Highly Skilled Peeper Supporter

    The dude on the right is like, "screw you, I'm catching it with my arms more then my body." Then he proceeds to throw the ball at the other guys throat :lowblow:
     
  12. seiken steve

    seiken steve golden member

    Slip beat me to the punchline (lucky for you guys, he's smarter and more eloquent than me)

    Any kind of impact drill is training the technique and mental aspect more than improving you ab strength/appearance. Despite one of my old coaches claims that "smashes the fat cells out of your body and you'll pee them out later with the lactic acid"

    Slip raises another good point that ab work should be performed standing and/or with a neutral spine.

    That’s why things like blast strap fall outs, front squat holds, paused front squats, ab wheel and even plank are far superior to any kind of situp/crunch variation.

    The obvious exception here could be people who’s sport involves them lying on their back performing similar types of movement, IE in BJJ, really though, if training a BJJ athlete I’d be spending very little time working on spinal flexion
     
  13. Ero-Sennin

    Ero-Sennin Highly Skilled Peeper Supporter

    Doing tons of crunches will help burn away all the belly fat too. Spot reduction!

    :eek:
     
  14. Kuniku

    Kuniku The Hairy Jujutsuka

    i've started working a bit more on abs at the gym, so far doing cable twists, planks and hanging leg raises (to eventually get to pendulums)
     
  15. Dave76

    Dave76 Valued Member

    In my old school, we practiced the exercise show in the video PA posted at least once a week, but with a 15lb medicine ball. Also punching/kicking abs and having a partner drop the ball on them while laying down.
    Every few weeks we would all lay down and the teacher would walk across our abs. Supposed to be for our confidence, which I thought was silly. It was harder to take the 15lb ball dropped from 4-5' than have him on my belly for 1.5sec!
     
  16. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Maybe, I've only done that one a couple of times, I prefer just punching. I found it kinda fun though, was it stopped due to injury? Didn't seem particularly dangerous to me.
     
  17. Ero-Sennin

    Ero-Sennin Highly Skilled Peeper Supporter

    I promise you, you would not want all 215 lbs of me jogging on your stomach :p
     
  18. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    You don't think it's dangerous to have 12+ stone supported on your abdomen through muscles tension alone?
    Too easy to mistime things, slip, step on the wrong part, etc etc.
    It's not something I've ever done or will let anyone do to me.
     
  19. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I've had close, if not the same. It's surprisingly fine, and I was probably close to half that weight at the time.
     
  20. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    If I'd never done it, I think I'd be saying the same. Having done it however, it's really not a big deal and less likely to injure than punches.
     

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