About The Bible

Discussion in 'Off Topic Area' started by Ragnarok2005, May 6, 2007.

  1. Not my writing. Just loved reading it.

    The vast majority of Americans believe that God exists, that Jesus is his son, and that God himself gave us the Bible and the Ten Commandments. In fact, Supreme court Justice Antonin Scalia has said that "Ninety-nine percent of Americans believe in the ten commandments." He has also said, "What the commandments stand for is the direction of human affairs by God." If 99% of Americans believe in the ten commandments, how can the Bible be repulsive? Let's take the fourth commandment as an example. It says:

    Remember the sabbath day, and keep it holy. For six days you shall labour and do all your work. But the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God; you shall not do any work—you, your son or your daughter, your male or female slave, your livestock, or the alien resident in your towns. [Exodus 20: 8-9]

    This, supposedly, is the word of God, the almighty ruler of the universe. Now think about this. Wal-mart is open on the Sabbath. And so is Target. Best buy is open on the Sabbath. And so is Circuit City. Home Depot is open on the Sabbath. And so is Lowes. In fact, millions of businesses in America have employees working on the Sabbath. Even Christian Family Bookstores has employees working on the Sabbath. What should we do with all of these people who are breaking the fourth commandment? In the Bible's book of exodus - the same book that contains the ten commandments – the Bible tells us what to do with everyone who breaks the fourth commandment.

    Exodus 31 verse 15 tells us: For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death.

    That's right. The Bible commands the death penalty for anyone who works on the Sabbath, and we should obey. Right? This means we have to kill tens of millions of Americans. Should we line these tens of millions of Americans up and shoot them? Should we put them in giant gas chambers? I think we can all agree that the thought of killing millions of innocent Americans is repulsive. A book this repulsive has no place in our society. And make no mistake about it - the bible really means what it says. It fully intends to be repulsive.

    In Isaiah 40 verse 8 the Bible says: The grass withers, the flower fades; but the word of our God will stand for ever. [Isaiah 40 verse 8]

    The Bible says the same thing in 1 Peter 1 verses 24 and 25. And in Psalm 19:7 the Bible says: The law of the Lord is perfect.

    Since the laws of the Bible are perfect, they should never change. And then there is this(Matthew 5:20):

    For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven. - Matthew 5:20

    According to Jesus, we must follow the laws of the Bible. Do you believe that we should kill millions of innocent people because they work on the Sabbath? If not, do you want a book this repulsive to be quoted in public? Read to children? Used in our courts of law?

    The Bible wants us to kill most people in America. For example, the first commandment says, "Thou shalt have no other Gods before me." What are we supposed to do with everyone who doesn't believe in God? We are supposed to Kill them. Deuteronomy chapter 17 says that we are supposed to stone non-believers to death.

    If a man or woman living among you in one of the towns the LORD gives you is found doing evil in the eyes of the LORD your God in violation of his covenant, and contrary to my command has worshiped other gods, bowing down to them or to the sun or the moon or the stars of the sky… Take the man or woman who has done this evil deed to your city gate and stone that person to death. – Deut 17:2-7

    In 2 Chronicles 15:12-13:
    They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. - 2 Chron 15:12-13

    Deuteronomy 13:13-19:
    Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases…you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God.

    Deuteronomy 13:7-12:
    If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods …do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. - Deut 13:7-12

    What if you take the name of the lord in vain?

    Leviticus chapter 24 verse 16 says:
    Anyone who blasphemes the name of the LORD must be put to death. The entire assembly must stone him. – Lev 24:16

    The Bible is quite clear. We must kill everyone who does not believe in God. There are approximately 30 million people in America who do not believe in any God. There are tens of million more who believe in gods other than the God of the Bible. The Bible commands that we kill them all. And keep in mind that the word of the Lord lasts forever, and the law of the lord is perfect. Think of this as a Christian Jihad. The idea of killing tens of millions of people because they don't believe in God is repulsive.

    If you curse your father and mother you are to be killed:
    All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. - Leviticus 20:9

    If you commit adultery you are to be killed:
    If a man commits adultery with another man's wife - with the wife of his neighbor - both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death. - Leviticus 20:10

    If you happen to be homosexual you are to be killed.
    If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is an abomination. They must be put to death. - Leviticus 20:13

    So let's review: God commands us to kill:
    • Everyone who works on the Sabbath
    • veryone who does not believe in God
    • Anyone who curses father or mother
    • Everyone who commits adultery
    • Everyone who happens to be Homosexual

    According to the Bible, we need to kill tens of millions of innocent Americans. The idea of killing this many innocent people is repulsive. The idea that people would walk around carrying a book that demands the death of tens of millions of innocent people is repulsive.

    Here's another example of the Bible's idiocy. Rebellious teenagers should all be killed as well.

    Here's what the Bible says in Deuteronomy chapter 21:

    If someone has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey his father and mother, who does not heed them when they discipline him, then his father and his mother shall ... say to the elders of his town, 'This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard.' Then all the men of the town shall stone him to death. - Deut 21

    Think about how many American teenagers need to die.

    The Bible's absolute sexism is well known, and it is repulsive. Here are two examples:

    Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church. - 1 Corinthians 14


    Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent. - 1 Tim 2

    We can find dozens of verses that are just as sexist. The Bible's sexism is both ridiculous and repulsive.

    The Bible fully supports slavery. In fact, the Bible has been used in many cases, including the American civil war, as an authoritative justification of slavery. Here are three examples.

    Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life. - Leviticus 25:44


    If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property. - Exodus Chapter 21:20


    Bid slaves to be submissive to their masters and to give satisfaction in every respect; they are not to be refractory, nor to pilfer, but to show entire and true fidelity. - Titus 2:9

    You can see that, according to the Bible:
    1. Buying and selling slaves is fine.
    2. Beating slaves is fine.
    3. Slaves are to show entire and true fidelity.

    The Bible is riddled with repulsion. Take, for example, this verse:

    Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. - Isaiah 13

    Or this:

    Samaria shall bear her guilt, because she has rebelled against her God; they shall fall by the sword, their little ones shall be dashed in pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open. - Hosea 13

    Or this:

    Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him. But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. - Numbers 31

    You get the picture. The Bible is repulsive.

    You have seen ten graphic examples of repulsion. You can find hundreds of verses like these throughout the old and new testaments. You find Racism, sexism and bigotry galore. The deaths millions of innocents are chronicled in page after page of this appalling book. There is no question that this book is repulsive. It has no place in a modern, civilized nation.

    We currently use the Bible throughout American society. We do that, in large part, because most Americans have never read the bible and have no idea how disgusting it is.

    • We read from this book at weddings and funerals.
    • We force people to put their hands on this book in court.
    • We find copies of the Bible in nearly every hotel room in America.

    The Bible demands that we kill everyone who works on the Sabbath. The Bible commands us to kill teenagers who drink too much. The Bible empowers us to enslave people of other nations. The Bible commands that we oppress women and kill people who happen to be homosexual.

    A book this repulsive has no place in our society. It is time for the intelligent, thoughtful people of this nation to acknowledge this simple fact and act on it.
  2. aikiMac

    aikiMac aikido + boxing = very good Moderator Supporter

    You're not sounding all that bright yourself. Read some stuff about the culture back then, and all the cultural references in Paul's letters. You've got it completely backwards. :rolleyes:

    I'd like to hear CanuckMA's take on the Old Testament stuff. ;)
  3. Strafio

    Strafio Trying again...

    Um... Aiki, remember that it's not Ragnarok's writing here. It's just a rant he enjoyed reading. I think you have a point that it was a rule of the times and when taken in proper context it would make sense. However, the context of this article is that this is the Bible that so many people appear to be claiming to have absolute and timeless morality. If we were look at the Bible in the same way as we do other myths and legends then we would see it more in it's cultural context. However, when so many people claim that the Bible tells us how we should abide by our lives today, we have to look at it as it relates to us in the age in order to make sense of such claims.

    And when we do that, it kind of becomes repulsive in many ways.
    (I know that you don't personally advocate that kind of simplistic literalism. The article wasn't really aimed at beliefs like yours.)
  4. Scarlet Mist

    Scarlet Mist Banned Banned

    Must note the cultural context.

    The coming of Jesus was something of a revolution. No more sacrifices were needed, we could communicate directly with God, the veil ripped etc. None of what was described in the Old Testament is evident in the New Testament, so there.
  5. aikiMac

    aikiMac aikido + boxing = very good Moderator Supporter

    He republished it without a disclaimer. That makes it the views his too.

    I am truly glad that you realize that. <whew>
    But to state the obvious, for that sort of interpretation to be valid ("the Bible sets forth absolute and timeless morality"), the reader must (1) figure out what the author meant for the original audience, (2) before the reader will know what the author meant for the present time. There really is no other valid way to pull out an absolute and timeless morality. I would say the same thing about other holy books. You gotta be fair to the book, you know.
  6. Strafio

    Strafio Trying again...

    Sounds like a pretty clear disclaimer to me. :)
  7. Scarlet Mist

    Scarlet Mist Banned Banned

    Not so. When I read it, I was unsure what he meant.
  8. CKava

    CKava Just one more thing... Supporter

    I don't see how the morality proposed can be considered timeless if it requires that we completely reinterpret it to suit our present cultural situation...

    I mean put it like this if the bible has parts saying you should kill people who believe in other gods what context is going to explain that away as a good system of morality? Even if religions were in dramatic conflict all the time back then that is still a message of intolerance and hate. Also weren't passages like those in the past interpreted as justification for things like the crusades? I realise they are by no means the reason for the crusades (as should be obvious) but my point is that following Aiki's advice it really is a matter of what is already culturally acceptable in your time and location as to how you will interpret the meaning of such hateful passages.

    So what? God's morality evolved over time? He became a bit more merciful and a bit less intolerant?
  9. LJoll

    LJoll Valued Member

    That isn't really a timeless morality at all though. It is one that must be changed and reinterpreted over time. An evolving morality.
  10. CanuckMA

    CanuckMA Valued Member

    Aiki, since you asked :cool:

    It is good to remember that Torah only applies to Jews. Non-Jews are free to work on Shabbat or worship other gods.

    All sentences must be rendered by a duly appointed court, all require at least 3 valid witnesses. Burden of proof is such that those sentences have never been applied.

    About slavery, remember the context. And much of the laws of slavery applies only to Hebrew 'slaves'. The better translation is indentured servant, to be set free during the Jubilee year. And even for non-Hebrew slaves, you must still treat them properly.
  11. CanuckMA

    CanuckMA Valued Member

    Remember that Torah (what you refer to as old testament), the written part is only a portion of what was given to Moses at Sinai. There is a much larger body of Laws and explanations that wes transmited oraly until written down as the Mishna, part of Talmud. Written Torah must not be taken literally.
  12. TheCount

    TheCount Happiness is a mindset

    A LOT of the Bible is an interpretation of the word of God. Numbers and leviticus are pure law laid down by people, not by god.

    Christians believe that Jesus came as much as anything to FREE us from various things.
  13. CanuckMA

    CanuckMA Valued Member

    It is all Law from G-d. What you are missing is the Oral part that expands on the Law.
  14. TheMadhoose

    TheMadhoose Carpe Jugulum

    it seems jesus' preachings of forgiveness is being overlooked here. Gods law in the old testament and the trend of forgivensess in the new testament. except for judas why is not allowed to be forgiven his sin.
  15. MonkeysUncle

    MonkeysUncle Shakin' like Bacon

    Much of this is taken extremely out of context, and some of it also seemed to be from an inaccurate translation. First of all, I don't know where the 99.9% statistic came from. I know many people, and I'd say only 10% or so of them or so are what I'd consider fellow Christians, meaning that they have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. It's also interesting that this writer mostly takes from the Old Testament, which were meant to show different aspects of God than the New Testament. Also, no mention of Jesus, the central figure of Christianity, is given. Jesus who died for those people doing the wrong things! Jesus who also taught us to love our neighbor as ourselves, show kindness to all in everything we do, and turn the other cheek before we retaliate. Some parts of the Bible may very well anger people, but you must look at everything in context.
  16. AZeitung

    AZeitung The power of Grayskull

    First of all, under Jewish law, not only did there have to be witnesses to a crime for the death penalty to be used, but someone had to warn the person committing the crime that what he was doing was punishable by death. The death penalty was only carried out around once every hundred years.

    Also of note

    They said to Him, "Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce and to put her away?" He said to them, "Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning, it was not so.(Matthew 19:7-8)

    Clearly this law, at least, was given to the people by Moses and not God. I don't believe most of the laws in Leviticus, or at least the punishments, claim to be handed down directly from God.

    and let's not forget this:
    It's always popular to quote
    Jon 8:7 So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them "He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.

    but if you continue,
    Jon 8:10-11 When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her, "Woman, where are those accusors of yours? Has no one condemned you" She said, "Noo one, Lord." And Jesus said to her, "Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more."

    It's clear that while Jesus recognizes the LEGAL authority of the law, God's way is to grant forgiveness, not punishment.
  17. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    It'd be nice if people took the time to give credit to the authors. It takes all of two seconds to post a source link.
  18. Awakening

    Awakening is on vacation

    So what you're saying then, is that we should ignore the parts of the Bible that are no longer culturally acceptable to us? If certain biblical laws that are no longer seen as appropriate are going to be called "out of context," how are we supposed to know which parts of the Bible still hold true? Are we to simply pick and choose based on our current morality, or is there a place in the Bible that I've missed where it says which laws are no longer valid?

    Why not? Where is the disclaimer in the Bible/Torah that says which parts are literal and which parts aren't? Is there a passage that says, for example, that the laws in deuteronomy are not to be taken literally, but that the story of Jesus is?
  19. AZeitung

    AZeitung The power of Grayskull

    Did you miss the part where he talked about the Mishna being the context into which you're supposed to interpret the Torah (much like how the New Testament should be interpreted in the context of apostolic tradition, but I digress).

    Regardless, the old and new testaments are not the same type of document and should not be treated as such. They were written in grossly different eras, and compiled in entirely different manners. The language of the new testament, with phrases in Jon like "we know these writings to be true" and "these are written so that you might believe", the letters from Paul (which we know were actually written by Paul) that explicitly metion his own literal witnessing and that of others of the resurrected Jesus, and the apostolic traditions passed down from the middle and and of the first century all attest to the intended literalness of the gospels. The fact that the entire new testament revolves around the life of a single person, in one way or another, also shows that it is a grossly different type of document from the old testament.
  20. CanuckMA

    CanuckMA Valued Member

    Well, sort of. There are a number of Laws that are only valid while the Temple is standing, we don't observe them right now. Same holds true for the instructions on how to deal with the inhabitants of the land G-d gave us. These are time and place bound.

    There need not be a disclaimer b ecause we (Jews) know anout Mishna. Remember that Torah was given to the Jews to be binding on the Jews. How others read and interpret the text is of no concern to us.

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