about shou shu (just being real)

i am sure everyone, with good and bad to say, has seen shou shu posts.
i just want to try something and hope it doesn't flame up like michael jackson on a pepsi commercial.

shou shu:
as everyone knows is a seven animal art meaning it uses principles of all seven animals to acheive its goals.
mainlines self defense
is an application art - meaning someone practicing shou shu has to do everything on someone else and some of us have the knockouts, concunsions, broken legs and ankles, stopped hearts, broken sternums, etc.from practicing to back up the claim. this is not to say that other styles don't.
it is a contact martial art. we do have katas or forms and they are also done on live people as in a fight situation.
may not be for everyone, especially in this forum.
is mainly in california usa.
also teaches weapons
keeps it simple
teaches defenses off multiple attackers (whether believed or not)
techniques are similar to kenpo but with different body motion much like judo and bjj differ.
does not teach the guard but can perform standing techniques while on the ground
teaches great power from small movements, through explosive striking, and pause free movements.
is an external to internal art
********************
i know i have left some stuff out but i will add in and so will other shou shuists i'm sure.

shou shu black belts:

have learned all the required material (approx. 150 fighting situation techniques on both sides on live people, 8 katas all fighting katas, 75 kicks and combinations kicks, and reactions) along with teaching the same material to up and coming students.
as a requirement for first degree you must, and i am not making this up, hit at least four times in a second. i hit between five and six not tooting my own horn just being real.
most see no reason to get into the ring or the cage. why? for me it is not about sportsmanship or records. i didn't even tell many of my friends that i was in martial arts because early on i had to defend myself against "what would you do with this or that" and i learned quickly not to evn partake in those discussions because it was either frustrating not to have them get what i meant (like many people here have also thought and or said) or i would show them and then my friends would say "why'd you hit me so hard?"
when i didn't mean to it is just that the way it is taught.
*********************
shou shu students:
are in awe of what they can do as are many martial artists when they see what they can do.
get quality instruction that pumps them way up in terms of enthusiasm, details, contact, etc.
do not mean to come off sounding holier than thou but have had training that many other styles haven't (just being real. i can give some facts but if you can't accept this than you may not accept those either)
have found themselves in real life situations and found how easy they get out of situations that may not be that easy to get out of, with little or no harm to themselves (myself included) and that pumps them up even more.
the boasting really isn't boasting, it's excitement that boils over into everything they discuss when it is shou shu related.
do not mean disrespect for other arts when discussing what about this art and that one but again have had teachers that have discussed and applied principles and techniques, in seminars, on each other, at nearly full speed, to defend against attacks from other styles as well as the bar room drunk.
***************************
some of the principles and terms that are known in cma's (possibly all i'm not sure) that can be used to understand shou shu:
action/reaction
centerline shift
one stillness/ one movement
snap and drive
sink and surge
relax and flex
50/50 70/30 all and none
inside and outside the circle
wa and fa
the three centerlines in the body
soft bow, hard bow, horse, cat hard and soft, cross step, stances
(each animal does these differently)
more to come i'm sure but that's all i can think of right now

i hope this helps everyone understand shou shu a bit better and how its students keep the level of energy so high. if you see something here that doesn't make sense or you question let me know. even though i grow tired of defending stuff at times i am always up for a friendly debate but let's be civil. any shou shuists want to add anything in case i didn't get it right go ahead.

 

An informative post.
The claim that you have had training which many other styles have not is undoubtably true. However, how would you react to me saying that many other styles have had training which you have not?

So you have come through a real life situation. Just because this time it was easy, doesn't mean it will be next time. Next time you may be fighting a trained martial artist, and a common problem in MA styles is that they do not fight with people outside of their style. Next time you may have multiple trained opponents. You cannot assume that people you fight will all have inferior skills to yours.
How exactly do you train your lethal blows? Without some sort of contact training, this teaching could prove to be useless.

Just a few thoughts.

 

I was with you up till "Fighting Katas?"

 

I think he means that they have real opponents when doing katas.

Not uncommon for TMA to show the applications of katas with opponents, but if that is all you do, why bother with katas? you might as well just do sparring. The point behind a kata is that you can take it away and practice it at home, and it will give you a good core foundation to work from.

 

I would like to know, as I can imagine we all would, what exactly it is that makes SS so incredibly good. Any special characteristic/training way?

 

Shou Shu is MMA. Get outa here .

Rgds,
David

 

Very cool! Thanks for this informative post!

I think people on these forums need to be a bit more openminded. Shou Shu is very intruiging, and though I have never seen it, it seems logically realistic.

 

sounds like wing chun with animals and coke

 

Great Info AG- I'm going to print it up so I can add it to my notes. The other night I was working on Peking Heel and learning the fundamentals of "filling & emptying" or the "loading" & unloading" off the back leg, at the same time turning of the hips along with the "sink & surge" principles.

I am amazed at how much power can be delivered in such a short range of motion. I believe that this new thread can be more positive & productive if we can keep it informative, exchange technical info & ideas with all MA's. By keeping it friendly we will all benefit from an exchange of information instead of fueling fires and flaming each other.

There is no "mystiique" revolving around what is Shou Shu, it has just not been commercialized or mass marketed and has been more of a regional Central CA offering, that has local traditions & history, that can make it appear to be a "facade" MA (which it is certainly not) to outsiders.

Amazingly, there is a portion of the population rooted here in Central Ca that has at least some recognition & knowledge of the Moore's schools and it's teachings over the last 30+ years. It's like the well establlished family neighborhood restaurant that has good service great food and all the locals know about it and your family has been going there for 30 years. The food keeps you coming back for more and you send your friends there and when your kids get older then go there and they tell their friends. It's the circle of life thing, only on a small, regional scale, so for people out of the area, you have no idea how great the menu is!

Many Shou Shu people are trying to bring everyone "inside" for prospectives. insight, what history that is available to us and applications & effectiveness of the art. It would be so different, I guess, if there were documentaries, magazine articles, tournament & trade show exposure, but that's not what Da Shifu's intentions were when offering his art to California students. But as students, we are trying to share our devotion & enthusiasm with all who are interested.

This is fresh start on a new thread, let's compare notes, not challenges.

Thanx again AG, you have the spirit of the Beasts!

 

good info A.G. very well put and of course some will still say that we are full of it. But we cant change the mind of babes unless our art is on the cover of Black Belt Mag or on the pay per view channel.

that is very good info though

Salute,

 

See?

This is all you guys had to do from the beginning. You don't have to make claims about ending fights before an opponent can land a strike, defeating 10 opponents and all that crap, just do this. It doesn't matter if you guys are excited about your style, you can go do cartwheels oustide or something, you don't have to come on here to vent your "happiness with your style" and make those claims. I just got my 5th pm within the last 24 or so hours from one of you guys, telling me yet again that you don't want to fight in the cage. If you don't, don't claim you can own anyone there and that your styel is the "be all, end all" of the MA's. Thanks for trying to redeem yourself AG, you have had the most common sense out of anyone trying to defend SS here. Thanks

 

0_o;;

I counted more than 7 last time I was at the zoo...

PL

 

Kudos to Sphyerion- a logcally open minded person who can appreciate exploration & intrigue, even of things unknown.

It is pleasure to get some rational discussion from for-real, interested MA's.
Every MA has some "likeable" aspect that gives it some allure or appeal to a person. The thing about Shou Shu is that it is not better than say, TKD or Baqua, it is a unique art in itself which offers variances and "short cuts" on what most TMAs have as established movements and techniques. If you have studied something else & have even been happy with it, that is not to say that you may find something that you like even better. As mentioned before, many of the SS Shifus have black belts in other styles and also cross train in MMA too. What die hard martial artist would not want to be well rounded in combat & sport fighting. Most are happy just sticking with one gig, and for me it's Shou Shu.

With Shou Shu, the principles and theory are still CMA based, but have been modified to make it more effective for each & every individual who trains hard and adapts these principles as a way of life. This is true with any discipline.

Our Shou Shu "salute" symbolizes I COME TO LEARN, NOT TO FIGHT, I BARE NO WEAPONS, SIGN OF MUTUAL RESPECT. This forum should be no different.

And this thread welcomes all of you with a genuine, mature interest in sharing and exchanging the wealth of knowledge & experiences that we can all offer each other, regardless of what your MA preference is.

 

multiple opponents

great post animalguy! thanks for picking me up! that's what i should've said in the beggining. i do not remember any shou shu people ever claiming to be able to take any mma fighter or cage fighter or whoever, on the contrary, i'd rather exchange info on fighting rather than challenge a total stranger to a meaningless fight. salute to all my shou shu brothers and sisters!

 

Salute Shifu,

 

the tendency to ignore the questions and statements of others, specifically chilu in this instance, in favor of patting each other on the back is what really bothers me.

thank you though, animalguy. great post. the above only applies to those who immediately came to tell you how much they loved you and wish to have your children.

 

Animal Guy having a little more reference knowledge on the art decided to post that info. We all appreciate him for it and hope to hear more from him in the future.

I dont wish to have his children but wish he would teach mine. LOL


Salute,

 

I have nothing to brag about and I don't see anything wrong with expressing the love that we have for our art. No matter what the style people should be able to share something that they enjoy and in this case it's Shou Shu. So let me just say this... I love Shou Shu! I feel that it would definately help me in a life threatening situation. If not, I'll just have to train harder!

I'm happy that people can come forward and ask questions and speak their opinions in a civil manner. Give us Shou Shuers a chance. All martial artists are the same at heart. We'll all fight for something we believe in.

 

where you been girl?

 

thanks everyone for the warmer response than i was ready for although hoping to receive. ther were a couple of good points brought up that i want to talk about.
1. chilu writes:

thanks chilu that was getting a lot closer to what i was hoping for from the begining. let me say this first, i started this in the hopes to quell the flaming not to redeem myself. these students want to continue the learning they receive in their schools and share what they learn with each other. the enthusiasm from one class puts a student on such a high that it spills out all over. haven't you ever had a lesson like that? i remember getting a lesson on certain kind of punch called a soft hand punch, your hand is relaxed, your fingers are pointing at your target and you fire it out. you close your hand just before impact, you turn your body toward your opponent, and you snap your wrist so that the knuckles of your hand drive through your target. this punch has knocked out ten teeth and layed a nose down sideways. if you received this knowledge as if a first time martial artist or a skilled veteran, would you be excited? i was and still am. this is the info they receive on nightly visits to their schools. if you could do this with the time it takes to deliver the punch (about 1/4 second if practiced marginally and can get down to about 1/16 or a 1/32th of a second when practiced repetitively) do you think it possible to be finished with a fight before it gets going? hypothetically speaking would it be possible?
no disrespect, from the posts i have read, suggest that anyone in shou shu has ever said they could whip another person in another style. mainly what i have read is what they can do, what the shifus can do, and what the principles of shou shu can do for them. i may be wrong on that since i haven't read all the posts because of the reason i started this thread, flaming. in fact i beleive that most shou shuists have said that they wouldn't fight in the cage since shou shu has many things taught that aren't allowed in the cage. again i may be wrong.
you are pretty intelligent for someone your age i'll give you that, just don't try and grow up too fast. enjoy your time and don't stress the little things.
2.shaolin dragon writes:

fair enough. da shifu al moore jr. has twenty one black belts which span many different martial arts. martial arts is what he has done since he could walk. he brought a master in tae kwon do over from florida (don't have his name but he was once a first degree in shou shu) to give lessons to the head shifu of each school. one shifu, a third or fourth degree in shou shu at that time, became a fourth degree in that weekend in tkd.
not tooting horns or flaming others just being real.
other seminars like this one have been done, where the shifus learn other styles as a way to familiarize, not with the same results though. with twenty one black belts we all think he has something to say about the other styles he has taken.

actually many real life situations considering the jobs i have had in my twenty eight plus years on the planet. next time it may be someone of skill, this is true, the possibility is there, although the likelyhood is small since most maists don't start sh** and i am included in that.

i should have remembered a broken jaw, a collar bone, a compressed spine with a concussion, broken noses, black eyes, and seperated ribs, which were all from demonstrations at camps that we had in the past.
we do not beat the hell out of each other every night (unless you are from the sacramento school hooooraaaa), we have body pads, kicking shields, hanging heavy bags, etc. but sometimes people do get hurt. if you practice hitting a pad someone is wearing on there chest and stomach and that person feels the impact to a degree that they double over you know it is a good hit although it was meant for the throat. if someone is in a stance of some strength and you kick them and they move, it stands to reason that someone not in that secure of a stance will move more. then we do things in that stance using the protective gear. this does not stop the bruises from coming in the next day but it keeps your leg intact.
d.e.a.d. this is how we train:
demonstration
explanation
application
detail

thanks shaolin you're right. this helps us to remember where everything goes for presentation and keeps our blocks and strikes where they need to be or else we get struck or worse. practicing after doing it on someone is easy when you remember that you have to block a big ole ham bone comin at your face at a real fast speed, or a kick to the groing that has ruined my day on several occasions for lack of intent on my part. this is done throughout the training not just for the first time learner of a form but whenever they leave something out or forget to put something where it is supposed to go. it also shows students early on what not to do in all aspects of shou shu. for example, "do not add in a pull back on a punch if there isn't one because it will be slow in getting there and give your opponent an extra moment to change tactics"

3. adam asks (thanks btw)

explosiveness is probably the biggest thing i can think of adam. a simple punch from someone outside of shou shu (not saying everyone or anyone in paticular) is the common bring your hand up while bringing your elbow back to **** it prior to release. a step insues somewhere in the transition, usually before the punch gets thrown but not always. as the punch is being thrown the body turns so that the punch is outside the bodies strongest point the centerline.
{ the line which exists in all of us and runs down the center of our bodies like a pole. this imaginary line offers us the balance we enjoy everyday when we walk, run, or stand as an axis on which we turn and move around in most things we do. the further a punch gets from that line the weaker it becomes and the more likely an injury will occur to weaker portions of the body like the shoulders (which boxers like the one that fought against eric morales recently have to be weary of when throwing those looping hooks)}
as the body turns and the punch with it although outside of the zone, it is easier seen (most commonly referred to as telegraphing), and is in a weaker position until the body and hand meet up again and then it is strong once again.
the shou shu approach is that all weapons need two things to be weapons
snap and drive. snap without drive is a fast ineffective punch best suited for the air. drive without snap is a push:
don't ****, just lift, snap it out (go fast) on your centerline, make contact then turn your hips as you drive (force your bodyto move in) forward.
in close quarters the snap may be only inches away from its target so other aspects are used like snapping the wrist one way or another.

4.jroe52 wrote:

i have never studied wing chun but that is a cool thing if we share some qualities. the animals and coke thing i think they like pepsi ha ha.

5.poop-loops wrote:

i hope so cause that would suck if they just had seven. can you imagine the group around the mantis exhibit?love the profile btw- lazy bum, ha ha i'm thinking of kicking my son ut cause he's a student too.

6.totality wrote:

i see it a different way and that is that the non- ignoring of statements and questions from others has only served to fan a great and ever increasing flame and that is why i started this thread. you'venever seen some of these people oh the ugly kids we would have. ha ha thanks again.

7.sphyerion thanks and yes it is very intriuging

8.david, shu shu is not an mma the way i look at it. it isn't a mixed bag, one style compliments the other.

thanks to all the shou shuists that replied:
three sky (my side kick great post yourself btw i have a restaraunt like that)
shifu tiger (you are more than welcome for the pick up)
shou shu blue (grrrr)
and xianghua (keep on lovin it baby)

thanks for your support. i know i neglected to post some of the things you wrote but this was more for answering others questions and it has already taken me far too long to write this