"ABC System": A Quick and Effective Self Defense System?

Discussion in 'Women's Self Defence' started by Moldavite_E, May 6, 2006.

  1. Moldavite_E

    Moldavite_E New Member

    Hey, everyone,

    Been lurking in the forum for a bit out of curiosity. Did rifle marksmanship, judo and foil fencing desultorily in my younger years. One lesson I DID take away after a month in judo was that all skills being equal a physically bigger person still had the advantage. I left soon after because it seemed a pointless exercise, just for the boys at the club to get off on grappling and pinning me down.

    Personal laziness stops me from picking up any martial art in earnest. I try to convince myself I’m looking for one to complement my interest in healing arts now but really, I can’t be ar$ed to go to classes week in week out for YEARS bowing to some bloke looking quite the part kitted out in white pyjamas or some overly be-muscled gym jock in shiny Lycra hotpants and still find find myself paralysed and my training totally useless in a real life scuffle.

    I’m very mild mannered and uncompetitive by nature. Don't like working up a sweat without immediate end. The most I would do is yoga very occasionally. I do have aggression or rage issues that have blown up in the past due to a sense of utter physical helplessness in dealing with authority (specifically, male authority and control). I have smashed and bloodied fists through glass windows and punched holes through walls because of this. One relatively recent incident was a violent altercation between myself and an elder male relative. I’m 5’4 to his 5’6”. I’m no malnourished limpet myself. But his strength was easily two or three times mine. The few hairy moments in that struggle really brought home how I DESPISE the weakness of my own sex. I have to emphasis the point I’m no flaming man-hating lumberjack shirt wearing dyke. No offence to any who might be reading this.

    A pop-up advertising something called “the ABC system” on this site just this morning piqued my interest. Something in my head went ‘Ping’ as I read it.

    Has anyone used this system? Would be terribly grateful to hear from any women without huge or even ANY martial arts experience on this. Any other suggestions or advice would be appreciated.

    Sorry if this question has been asked before. I’m a bit lost navigating this site. If someone would be so kind as to direct me to the right thread or information.


    Cheers,
    Moldavite
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2006
  2. philp

    philp New Member

    I've never taken it, but I've always been under the impression that Judo was about utilising what weight you have got to your advantage and if the other person is heavier, you use their weight to their disadvantage.

    I think studying anything would give you a better chance of defending yourself, I definitely know a few girls who do Taekwondo, Muay Thai and Kickboxing and they could definitely kick my ass with relative ease if they wanted to. (I'm a 6'4 190lb guy).

    As for the ABC defence system, I'm afraid I can't shed any light on that, just wanted to drop my 2c on your perception of some of the martial arts effectiveness.

    Surely anything that gives you some idea of how to handle an attacker if (god forbid) you ever needed to is better than nothing? no?

    Phil.
     
  3. CKava

    CKava Just one more thing... Supporter

    Just looked up the ABC system (Adcanced Battlefireld Combatives) and I would definitely, definitely not recommend it!

    For anyone interested the website is http://www.topsecrettraining.com and for anyone who wants the synopsis this is in big red writing at the top of the page...

    "Astonishing Shortcut Fighting Secrets So Dangerous They Were Banned By Congress Finally Revealed By Notorious Former Military 'Secret Weapon' Who Scares Even Top Martial Art Pros... By Quickly Turning Even Scrawny Weaklings With No Athletic Ability Into Monster Killing Machines ...Almost Overnight!"

    And the ABC Program is developed by 'Lieutenant X' :D.

    If this is the same system that made you go 'ping' then I don't know what to say... I'm hoping there is a different ABC system out there because frankly the last thing I read with the amount of nonsense on that site was by another 'Commander X' who wrote a book about invisibilty and levitation. Wonder if they served together?

    If you trained in a good place 'week in, week out for YEARS' then you will be infinitely more capable of handling yourself in "a real life scuffle" than if you just sit at home making excuses. Sorry if that sounds harsh but lets face it your making sweeping generalisations which make it sound like its impossible to find a reasonable place to train and if you live in a moderately sized city it shouldn't be that hard.

    Seeing as you seem to dislike the traditional elements (bowing & pyjamas) I would suggest finding a more modern art and given your aversion to lycra shorted instructors I would suggest Boxing or Thai Boxing. They still wear shorts and sorry but in any decent art your going to have 'muscle bound' people... training hard usually gives you muscle! However, if your looking for quick results if you train hard after a few months you should at least be stronger and able to throw decent punches which I would imagine would be a big help in most self defence situations...

    *I would also suggest you try and relax and get less hung up on what people wear! Who cares if someone is wearing pyjamas or lycra shorts if the training is good then that should be what matters.

    Without being willing to work up a sweat unless you see immediate results I personally think its going to be quite difficult to become good at any martial art... Maybe what your looking for is a womens self defence course rather than a martial art and in regards those I have no idea what kind of thing they offer so maybe someone better informed will reply.
     
  4. Sarita

    Sarita Valued Member

    If you don't want a complex system why don't you try krav maga? (disclaimer: I do it myself so I'm bound to think it's good).

    It's no-frills, and fairly easy to pick up with nothing in the way of spirituality (not that I've seen anyway).

    I understand your size issues - I am five foot one tall, weigh 115 pounds so there's no way I'm going to be able to beat up some massive guy if he started on me. But hopefully what I will be able to do is stun him into letting go of me and hurt him to the extent he won't chase me when I leg it. Anything above that is a bonus.

    It's a killer workout though, so you do break into a sweat doing it. I often look at the yoga class next door with envy when I'm doing choke drills :)
     
  5. Sankaku-jime

    Sankaku-jime Banned Banned

    There are no quick and easy self defense systems, what ever style or system you follow, it takes a lot of hard work to get good.
     
  6. Sarita

    Sarita Valued Member

    Seconded

    You've gotta be prepared to work at it!
     
  7. neb

    neb Banned Banned

    I'm not trying to be harsh, but I'd rather no more lazy people start jumping into martial arts and causing problems. Either teach yourself some will power and open-up to a world of possibility, hard work and no-limits. Or hire a body guard to do it for you.

    Take what you do seriously or don't take it at all.
     
  8. kwang gae

    kwang gae 광개 Sidekick Specialist

    Neb's 100% right on the money! There are no shortcuts.

    The secret of martial arts training is work hard and you'll get better.
     
  9. Moldavite_E

    Moldavite_E New Member

    Thanks for the response, Sarita. What you do sounds interesting, closer to what I'm trying to get at.

    The impetus of Yoga is different from a martial art of course but you can certainly work up a waterfall of sweat if you’ve tried it. I do Vinyasa and Ashtanga. Thank goodness I didn’t let those malnourished loin-cloth wearing airy fairy looking types deter me from taking it up.

    I appear to have offended some people who took what I said out of context and harped on (and ON) on the unfortunate imagery I happened to use. It was NOT my intention to run down or make fun of any martial art. Any art form, not just martial arts, would have its advantages and disadvantages. Its effectiveness would depend not only on the individual teacher, but how the teacher matches with the student. I would neither malign nor be impressed by any martial art based purely on how the teacher is dressed. I’m looking for something that matches my personal needs, not anyone else’s here. Whatever worked for them, excellent. The subject title of the thread I started did say “Self Defense” after all, not martial art, and I had outlined my personal albeit limited experience in the martial arts I tried in my school days THEN (forgot to mention, karate) and my very different reasons for wanting to take up self defense NOW.

    Obviously, some have taken my lightness of tone rather too personally and misread it as criticism of some martial art or other. Did they actually think I was JOKING, having a LAUGH in that domestic violence incident? A female relative got in between us to stop us trying to kill each other. She was knocked over with an open gash to her head and had to be taken to A&E. As it is I’ve always tried to get away from the sort of grotesque chauvinism and machismo that drives a person like him so I don’t appreciate being told off by people who don’t know the first thing about me or understand something called SELF DEPRECATION and are beginning to sound worryingly like him by the sorts of words they throw about.

    I’m still waiting to hear from anyone who’s actually TRIED the system before lambasting it, not from someone with pre-conceived notions, who made a snap judgement without knowing the first thing. Wasn’t that supposed to me, according to some around here? :)

    Allow me to use an analogy if I might. Cordon Bleu certainly is a wonderful style of cooking but how many people not otherwise inclined towards cooking would sign up for a course in order just to learn how to make better meals at home for the family?

    Cheers,
    Moldavite
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2006
  10. Nick K

    Nick K Sometimes a Valued Member

    Generally speaking, any system that promises 'astonishing shortcut fighting secrets' is not to be trusted - the human body has been around a very long time, and there are only so many ways to strike/kick/takedown/restrain, etc that are possible given our anatomy -and there aren't really any fighting secrets. Most martial arts that have a strong self defence element have considerable overlap in their techniques - those that are primarily sports play to a particular rule set, so look different to one another. Respected arts that concentrate on self defence include krav maga, systema, some wing chun schools, some jujitsu schools, defendo as well as many others. However, if you are a skilled martial artist even from an art that concentrates on sporting activty within a particular rule set, you'll be able to employ what you learn to defend yourself. Boxing, muay thai, WTF TKD can all improve your fighting skills. If you want to improve your strength - which is an important part of fighting prowess and can only be offset to a certain extent by skill - then consistent and thoughtful resistance training with weights or bodyweight can make a tremendous difference.

    Hope this helps. A helpful thing can to visit a few classess and talk to the instructors, explaining what you wish to do.
     
  11. Oversoul

    Oversoul Valued Member

    I love how the address for that site contains "top secret" even though they're clearly paying for exposure. :rolleyes:
     
  12. neb

    neb Banned Banned

    Same thing, it is best to treat them as one and the same than seperate schools of thought. Everything one does in a martial art benefits actual combat.

    I find most classes labelled "self-defence" which consider martial arts as a seperate thing do only one thing: Utilise techniques from martial arts styles but avoid the actual conditioning of the student mentally and physically.

    Maybe I'm generalising too much, but certainly that sums up this ABC system Bull!

    The first step is very important. I don't think there is anything more difficult than defending oneself efficiently against other human beings. Safe for maybe climbing Everest or swimming the Atlantic.

    Such systems as ABC are not the best place to start, or for that matter ever consider in your natural life. Period.
     
  13. robertmap

    robertmap Valued Member

    Hi 'Moldavite_E' and All,

    The key to the ABC system seems to be in the first bit of text that says...

    "You don’t have to be a steroid induced ultimate cage fighter or a multiple black belt bad-ass to completely rip one apart in a street fight…"

    It's completely true - it's the old line about "It's not the dog in the fight, it's the fight in the dog" - In other words if you can learn a few basic physical techniques and then add to that a 'killer mentality' then you can win the fight...

    The problem is that 99.999% of people (even many/most of those in the military) DO NOT HAVE a killer mentality - courses that try and teach you that are generally a waste of time unless you want to change completely some of your most important core beliefs.

    I'd strongly recommend finding a good martial arts school - there are many where the bowing and stuff is kept to a minimum - don't worry about the 'funny pyjamas' - I sometimes wear Japanese ones (Karate) and sometimes Chinese ones (Tai Chi) and you soon get used to them - more importantly why risk getting your normal clothes torn or worn out when you can wear something purpose made for the activity that you are doing.

    If you want to say the town or city where you live I'm sure that there will be people on this forum who can recommend a specific school(s) for you to try out.

    All the best.

    Robert.
     
  14. Moldavite_E

    Moldavite_E New Member

    Hi Nick_K,

    Thank you for your input.

    Yours was the least patronising response, apart from Sarita, so I’ll return the courtesy.

    The ABC System does NOT purport to be a new fangled martial art trend in itself. Most people here who have jumped in in this thread have grasped the total wrong end of the stick and won’t let up.

    Granted the American sales speak and bombast is really embarrassing, if one can ignore it, its emphasis is on mnemonics. It claims you can almost immediately “re-programme” and “hardwire” it into your present martial art practice or those who have absolutely none by sharply reducing the sorts of mistakes that even martial arts black belts have been proven to do in arm-to-arm confrontations.

    What you kindly tried to explain about the self defense component in all martial arts was akin to leading me by the hand to the woods up to the nearest tree, placing my hand on the trunk, enunciating slowly and clearly, “Bark – BARK – tree – TREE. BARK is part of TREE. Now you say it.”

    Anyway, it seems I can’t navigate out of this maelstrom of miscommunication. Seems to be happening a lot lately.

    If it was the purpose of the rest to teach a lesson by jeering and heckling at the tourist in their midst merely asking for directions, they would be glad to know it did. Well done.
     
  15. Sankaku-jime

    Sankaku-jime Banned Banned

    nobody has patronised you at all ?


    that does not matter, to get good at anything requires lots of hard work simple as that, anything else is just false confidence.

    so who's fault is that ? perhaps its your communication that is at fault ?

    no one jeered or heckled you,
     
  16. EmptyHandGuy

    EmptyHandGuy Valued Member

  17. Doublejab

    Doublejab formally Snoop

    Hi Moldavite,

    In all honesty that website looks very dodgy. ''You will pick 98% of it up just watching it one time!'' etc etc. It just isn't true, its a shame learning how to fight isn't easier but if systems like this were real they'd get famous and renowned. There are alot of adverts and websites like this around and they're just out to make a quick buck. ''Banned by congress'' indeed lol.

    The simple fact is that to get decent at fighting takes time. My advice would be to try kick boxing. Even once a week would be enough to get a bit stronger and fitter and to learn some useful stuff. Make sure its a school that does proper sparring though. Sparring is also a good way to burn off excess aggression.
     
  18. neb

    neb Banned Banned

    Oh please,

    You post something and people will give their honest opinions, simple as that. Nobody has patronised or put you down, in fact those which you feel have "come down hard" have offered the best advice.

    Martial arts and self defence are broad and unique disciplines, requiring effort and constant trial and error. There is no one method, no ultimate path, no perfect way.

    It is something that demands years of your life, tests of your skill and energy from the very get go if ever to be appliable to an effective extent in a real life threatening situation.

    I feel that you are viewing this as a negative, as many people do and so avoid learning such a discipline. End of the day though, learn that there is no short-cut in this line of work, no matter how many pop-ups may dilute your screen, it's as simple as that.

    But, I ask many of you who are just starting out, why must the hard way be the bad way? Training for me and many others is enjoyable, satisfying and thrilling. I'd be miserable If I didn't work up a sweat.
     
  19. robertmap

    robertmap Valued Member

    Hi All,

    I must admit that reading the last post from Moldavite_E where she said
    left me thinking that perhaps she was trying to promote the ABC system???

    It wouldn't be the first time that guerrilla marketing has been attempted on the Internet - indeed I do it myself with my .sig on every message...

    Let's hope that she's legit and if she is, that she starts to listen...

    ABC - could stand for "A Bogus Concoction" :) :) :) :)

    All the best.

    Robert.
     
  20. kmguy8

    kmguy8 Not Sin Binned

    i do not want to insult anyone
    however, anyone,.. and I mean anyone
    stupid enough to buy into that poorly a marketed product
    that obviously vague description
    that pricey a pricepoint
    should be removed from the gene pool
    Lt. X or any of the other super-man military secret names he uses should be shot
    poster - use the search function for crying out loud
    this has been covered here many times
    the general concensus is that it is ******** marketed to idiots

    edit - apologies for the swearing - thought that one was ok....
    and does this strike anyone else as a poorly masked attempt to drive traffic to this idiot's site?
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2006

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