A true Martial Artist

Discussion in 'Off Topic Area' started by Zerodauto, Apr 26, 2010.

  1. Killa_Gorillas

    Killa_Gorillas Banned Banned

    fair enough:cool:
     
  2. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    I can understand why throwing art and ground game are not for everyone. The sweet, the smell, the homosexuality, ... If you are not a gay, the "hip throw" position may make you feel uncomfortable. :)

    Have you ever read this in Chinese history - The 1st official record about CMA ever used in Chinese battle field?

    黃帝战蚩尤,蚩尤善角抵 (Huangdi Zhan Chi You, Chi You Shan Jiao Di) - The Yellow Emperor fought Chi You, and Chiyou was good in "Chinese wrestling". I believe the Yellow Emperor period (2697 BC - 2599 BC)predated the birth of Shaolin Temple.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    Copied from Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    History

    The earliest Chinese term for wrestling, "jǐao dǐ" (horn butting), refers to an ancient sport in which contestants wore horned headgear with which they attempted to butt their opponents. Legend states that "jiao di" was used in 2697 BC by the Yellow Emperor's army to gore the soldiers of a rebel army led by Chi You.[1] In later times, young people would play a similar game, emulating the contests of domestic cattle, without the headgear. Jiao di has been described as an originating source of wrestling and latter forms of martial arts in China.[2]

    The practice of Jiao li in the Zhou Dynasty was recorded in the Classic of Rites[3]"Jiao li" (角力) was a grappling martial art that was developed in the Zhou Dynasty (between the twelfth and third century BC). An official part of Zhou military's training program under the order of the king[3][4], jiao li is generally considered to be the oldest existing Chinese martial art and is among the oldest systematic martial arts in the world. Jiao li supplemented throwing techniques with strikes, blocks, joint locks and attacks on pressure points.[1] These exercises were practiced in the winter by soldiers who also practiced archery and studied military strategy.

    Jiao li eventually became a public sport in the Qin Dynasty (221-207 BC)[4], held for court amusement as well as for recruiting the best fighters. Competitors wrestled each other on a raised platform called a "leitai" for the potential reward of being hired as a bodyguard to the emperor or a martial arts instructor for the Imperial Military. Some contests would last a week or so, with over a thousand participants. Jiao li was taught to soldiers in China over many centuries and its popularity among the Manchu military guaranteed its influence on later Chinese martial arts through the end of the Qing dynasty.

    The term "shuai jiao" was chosen by the Central Guoshu Academy (Zhong Yang Guo Shu Guan 中央國術館) of Nanjing in 1928 when competition rules were standardized[citation needed] . Today, shuai jiao is popular with the Mongols, where it is called "böhke," who hold competitions regularly during cultural events.[5] The art continues to be taught in the police and military academies of China.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2010
  3. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    Again, this is a very prepackaged account of how it all began. And it hinges quite heavily on a definition of martial arts that is very personal to you (to the point of being a bit myopic). You can certainly engineer a definition of martial arts that's specific enough that Shaolin becomes the right answer. "Martial arts are defined as the use of a fighting method to cultivate personal development according to a Buddhist spiritual framework." With a definition like that, you may be right about it starting with Shaolin. But even then...

    But by any broader and, to my mind, more accurate definition of "martial art," what you're suggesting is self-evidently inaccurate.


    Stuart
     
  4. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    "A gay"

    Man what?!
     
  5. warriorofanart

    warriorofanart Valued Member

    The first throw I learned was a hip throw, and I didn't feel uncomfortable. It's not like you're dancing with a guy, you're about to smash him on the floor.

    ...at least that's what I keep repeating to myself.
     
  6. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    That was one of my jokes. :)
     
  7. Zerodauto

    Zerodauto Valued Member

    YouKnowWho, please use a better source than Wikipedia, which can be edited by anyone. Now I'm pretty sure if you go back I admitted to being wrong after hello posted an article about the European martial arts. I admitted to be wrong, the only thing I was saying about the list you provided was that it skipped over the Shaolin martial arts. Also I dont mind throwing people. My best friend is a black belt in judo and either northern or southern shaolin kung fu, and hungar. He taught me a hip throw which i practiced a couple times, didn't ever think I would use it. Then I was sparing another of my friends who does muay thai, he did a spinning elbo and somehow I stepped in and did the hip throw that i learn a week or two earlier.

    to ap Oweyn. I was stating that the martial arts started at the temple were meant to help assist the monks on the path to enlightenment. The secondary purpose was self defense. I was not say that that was the origin of all Asian MA.
     
  8. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    But you said:

    Now, if you're amending that, I think that's a smart move. But you need to be clear about what you're saying. I can find less argument with what you've stated above. Though there's still debate as to whether Bodhidharma even existed.


    Stuart
     
  9. Edgeorge

    Edgeorge Valued Member

    A true martial artist is the one who lives with sincerity, empathy, who has self knowledge and self confidence, who expresses himself. The one that respects the universe and bows to it.

    However, to achieve all that you have to achieve a certain proficiency in combat.

    I pretty much agree with the definition of the true martial artist by Koyo.
     
  10. Doublejab

    Doublejab formally Snoop

    Nope, thats a mature and well intentioned person. Martial arts may help to produce these traits but someone could become a very skilled martial artst(and thus a 'true' one) while being an insincere, scheming git who gives the universe the finger.

    Ryan Gracie was a true martial artist.
     
  11. Edgeorge

    Edgeorge Valued Member

    Not really, Ryan Gracie was -perhaps- a good fighter. A horrible martial artist nonetheless.
     
  12. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    I guess I'm having a hard time reconciling "empathy" with a history of death and destruction couched in terms like "honour" and "self perfection." How empathic was Miyamoto Musashi being when he bashed people's heads in with a bokken?

    The history of martial arts is full of accounts of people who are highly proficient in combat, but probably not people you'd want to have round for a cookout.

    Why? Why do you have to achieve proficiency in combat to be empathic and sincere?


    Stuart
     
  13. iammartialarts

    iammartialarts Banned Banned

    a true martial artist is someone who can do one a squat with their own bodyweight.
     
  14. ArthurKing

    ArthurKing Valued Member

    I'm sorry, i've just read all of this thread and i can't believe you guys missed this FANTASTIC typo right at the beginning
    What i want to know is, if Shaolin monks are interested in bathing, is swimming a (true)martial art?
    P.S. as much as i love all the peripherals to learning MA, i basically agree with snoop.
     
  15. Zerodauto

    Zerodauto Valued Member

    Interesting, I did indeed misspell path. And I completely disagree with snoop, someone who fights well is a fighter, just that. Someone who brings philosophies into there fighting is a martial artist. A true martial arts doesn't have to fight.
     
  16. Doublejab

    Doublejab formally Snoop

    Oh wasn't he? Really? Are you really saying Ryan wasn't adept in the arts of war?

    On the Renzo Gracie documentary (highly reccomended) theres a clip of him after one of Renzo's fights in Brazil going crazy. A riot had broken out and he'd been in the middle of it for over an hour fighting all comers, people had tried to stab him and he'd been shot at (on the recording of the riot you can clearly hear a lot of gun shots). His clothes were ripped apart and he was covered in sweat and blood, but he still wanted to fight and it took his father to calm him down.

    He was a troubled human being, and maybe not a moral one, but the guy was nothing if not a warrior.

    Heres the thing.

    1) Films.

    2) Real life.

    Got it? They are different. In real life the skilled martial artists are generally nice people, but not always. And not being a good person does not in any way detract from their standing as an elite martial artist.
     
  17. Doublejab

    Doublejab formally Snoop

    I rest my case.
     
  18. spidersfrommars

    spidersfrommars Valued Member

    Could you be a true painter without picking up a brush?
     
  19. Moi

    Moi Warriors live forever x

    Yes
     
  20. spidersfrommars

    spidersfrommars Valued Member

    Well I suppose finger paining is fun too...
     

Share This Page