A talk about what works. Please participate.

Funny everyone debating kicks to the head in all these other styles. All the handwringing. In Muay Thai there is no debate. Indoors or out. It ain't rocket science to kick someone in the head if you can. Sheesh.

 

It would have been ironic if he had wrapped a branch round the back of your head and said "didn't block that one did ya?"

 

This was someone I used to spar regularly at the drop of a hat so me asking him out of the blue wasn't too strange and anywhere else he would have tried to boot me in the noggin.

My point was that even he recognized that there are many environments where the high kicks won't work (dense forest, loose gravel, snowy or icy ground, an island where you can fall to serious injury or your death if you slip and fall) but hand techniques are far safer by comparison across multiple environments.

 

One time me and a mate were wearing crash helmets.
I knew he did Wing Chun so I said "Chain punch me in the head bro!".
He said no.
So Wing Chun no worky right?
What are we talking about again?

 

I'd accept that as a valid assessment of the fact that striking is less effective against an armored opponent... Hence why JJJ traditionally is primarily grappling.

Since someone else posted somethirehab out high kicks I posted an anecdote related to the environmental limitations of high kicking. I didn't say high kicking didn't work. I said it had more environmental limitations than striking with the hands.

 

This is the crappest argument ever. Much used by armchair theorists. Give me a break. If you have a chance to kick someone in the head and have the ability then do so. If you balls it up and slip and fall then it's on you so deal with it. There is no one size fits all attack for everyone in every situation.

This whole 'head kicks don't work on ice/lava/bed of razors' nonsense is nothing more than drool coming of everyones chin.

Give me a bleedin' break. :bang:

 

Oh my sweet friggin black baby Jesus. I'm not saying don't train high kicks or that with adequate training that they don't have their place :bang: I'm just noting that they have more environmental limitations than hand striking. I can box on ice, snow, gravel, less safe footing, in dense forest. I cannot or would not risk high kicks in those situations because of the possibly severe penalty of doing so. That's all I'm saying and for some reason it's being blown way out of proportion.

I'm saying that kicking has more environmental limitations than hand striking. That's all.

It's just like saying that I would not choose to go to the ground in a self defense situation and then you jumping on me over the fact that BJJ can be effective.

 

And after all that... your last fight on ice/woods/lava where high kicks were impossible was when?

 

Grade 13 of highschool in the middle of winter on a half inch of ice in the parking lot trying to break up a fight with a bunch of other people and it turned into an ugly slug fest.

 

You forgot the lava. Never forget the lava

 

Yeah Canada is geographically not high kick country 7 months in the year!

Winter time patrol in Calgary means groundwork! I actually had to pull guard on one arrest a few years ago because my feet were at odds with the sidewalk

 

Yep. Canada's self defence = hockey boxing + BJJ

 

When he kicked at you, did you say:

"What was that? An exhibition? We NEED emotional content..."

Actually I always wondered what the hell that meant. Think I will start a thread about that in the philosophy or JKD section.

 

Haha. Bruce took that straight out of the kuen kuit. Kuen yao sum fut - a strike (punch) comes from the heart. Basically he was just saying that you cannot just be technically sound. There has to be aggression, but you have to do it without being emotionally volatile. Aggressive, but calm.

 

Ah ok. Makes perfect sense. Reminds me of Ujio.

 

Anyway, back on high kicks, this is very similar to the front kick I have made work.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGD0qxRSmjU"]Vitor Belfort vs Anderson Silva - KO Front Kick - YouTube[/ame]

 

"BOOT TO DA HEAD"

 

Aw man, I remember nearly wetting myself as a kid watching those Canadian guys!

(presuming you're talking about "four on the floor")

Anyway, from what I've seen of TKD and similar in competition, they still fall over when in favourable conditions. If you've practiced high kicks on snow, ice, shale, pebble beaches, mud, amongst roots etc., you'll have the stabilizer muscles required to do it. If you don't... you won't.

...with the caveat that I would be unlikely to do them in a real situation.

For What Works: front kicks are less likely to recieve a groin kick than others (like side or roundhouse), but the bigger danger is someone grabbing your leg. It depends on your skills, some have very quick feet and are very flexible, but they are in the minority.

 

Something that has always worked for me was the Thai clinch. Training it against multiple styles also helps as you won't always have 'clinch etiquette' on the streets.

 

When I throw one it is generally after a slight step back after a few hand shots of some kind. I used to be able to slip it up between the hands of people during sparring. The one time I used it in a fight the person did not see it coming at all. That is why I liked it, it kind of reminded me of an upside down JKD style punch with a straight angle and no telegraphing. That was years ago though. I don't have the flexibility anymore.