a serious question of real life application

Discussion in 'Weapons' started by ABanzhof, Nov 20, 2010.

  1. pgsmith

    pgsmith Valued dismemberer

    Yes, but I divorced her, so I'd rather not talk about my ex-wife.
    For the OP ...
    Here's an apocalypse question for you then ... why are you so worried about extending your life, when you haven't actually got one to worry about keeping? Stop fantasizing about weapons and what you're going to do in the unlikely event of an apocalyptic meltdown, and go out and learn how to have a life of your own. Chances are very good that if society has a meltdown you are going to die, no matter how many weapons and how much ammo you have. Far better to die thinking "at least I had a great life!" than it is to die thinking "at least my sucky life is finally over!"
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2010
  2. Langenschwert

    Langenschwert Molon Labe

    Not surprising. Many nations are "blade cultures" where blades are given more respect than guns. Carrying a blade is a way of showing you mean business. Crowds will sometimes retreat in the face of fixed bayonets rather than in the face of a levelled firearm. I think I read that here on MAP. Strange bit of psychology.

    Best regards,

    -Mark
     
  3. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    Also from what I've read those who work for blackwater and PMCs in general are notoriously retarded
     
  4. Kuma

    Kuma Lurking about

    I wouldn't go that far. Blackwater typically only takes prior service members who were at one point part of America's elite. If you have a group that has a lot of Rangers, Green Berets, Force Recon, SEALs, and the like, you're definitely not getting "retards".

    For what it's worth, the few Blackwater guys I've encountered overseas all seemed professional and on top of their game. If we were to judge every organization by one or two bad incidents, not a single group that's been around more than 10 years would be walking around without a black eye.
     
  5. Stolenbjorn

    Stolenbjorn Valued Member

    I have never med a blackwater-dude, but I know for sure that if you don't want to have a safe life, blackwater is a good place to apply for a job. When norwegian soldiers in Afghanistan kill a civilian by accident, it's the norwegian nation that have commited the crime, and Afghanistan and Norway deals with the aftermath. When a Blackwater-dude kill a civilian by accident, you're a person that have killed someone in that country, and you will be judged by that law.

    Norway currently have two ex-soldiers and mercenaries living in a jail in Kongo, serving a death-centence for killing a kongolese, allso facing a money-compensation equaling a yearly norwegian budget :rolleyes:
     
  6. mai tai

    mai tai Valued Member

    im a survivalist too......defention of a survivalist.....someone with a gun and directions to a mormans house.........................................mormans by religius tenets have to have one year of food stored at there homes
     
  7. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    I wasn't refering to their civvie killings as much as I have a problem with the decision in the trial I just generally don't like the attitude of the ones I've seen. Admittedly it was probably played up for tv but all I saw was the annoying "badass" shades and guns sticking out of every orifice which is a description I've heard from others as well. Obviously I'm being judgemental here but it is how I feel, I'm more in support of this whole Hearts + Minds approach in afghanistan and I don't think the rambo look helps much.

    EDIT:
    I did a thread about this before so I won't go in-depth on this one but thats not what happened to the US mercs who used a machine gun on a bunch of random civvies. They got judged by US law in a US court and got let off pretty much.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2010
  8. Kuma

    Kuma Lurking about

    When you get paid six figures a year tax-free and have a big budget, you can afford a lot of toys. If I wasn't married, you would see me earning that big paycheck there in a heartbeat. An acquaintance of mine was EOD in the Marine Corps, he's now working for a private company making $180k doing the same thing.
     
  9. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    Oh yeah trust me if I could afford I'd have swords, knives and airsoft guns all over my room I just don't think its suitable in that particular warzone.
     
  10. Stolenbjorn

    Stolenbjorn Valued Member

    Ah, I didn't know this. Blackwater is the place to apply if you want to play mercenary theese days, then. I guess it helps to be a corporation under the USA superpower-umbrella. It would be interresting if a norwegian joining Blackwater would be exchanged, I think it's fairly acurate to claim the following:

    If you are a mercenary killing someone in a foregin country, you can not take for granted that you will be judged by your home-nation's rules.
     
  11. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    So what are the rules PMCs operate under? I always assumed they counted as military personnel but if their liable under their host nation then they obviously can't be?
     
  12. Stolenbjorn

    Stolenbjorn Valued Member

    I was listening to a program on norwegian radio about norwegian "mercenaries", where one representative of the norwegian army explained that some norwegian soldiers are tempted to quit the army and join well payed international "security"-corporations, without realizing the significant difference in legal protection between a national soldier working for a nation that have a deal with the nation one operates in, and the legal protection they get as a civilian with a work-permit and visum in a country.

    Imagine if I signed on to a "security"-corporation in USA, and worked as a "bodyguard" there, and shot an american... Do you think I would be flown out of USA and judged by norwegian law, or by american law?

    Having said this, I must stress that this was about Norway and norwegians joining international "security"-corporations like Blackwater, not about blackwater itself, the army-dude was mostly talking about "security"-companies in general, and for all I know, USA is leaning on countries to a degree where their citicens are treated by USA's laws, even if they kill norwegians in Oslo.

    I believe that if an american with the flag on the shoulder is on duty in Norway and kills a norwegian, he is then treated by american military law. If the same american quits the american army and starts working in norway as a bodyguard and kills a norwegian, you're a foreginer with a work-permit in norway that will be prosecuted by norwegian law. Wether your corporation is called "Blackwater" or "Henriks leiemorderfirma" is of no relevance.
     
  13. Kuma

    Kuma Lurking about

    I'm not sure of the legal mumbo jumbo myself, but I would imagine if you are working for a certain government you would fall under the laws of that government, and if you broke any laws in the country you're working in, you would probably face legal penalties from the government you're working for.
     
  14. Stolenbjorn

    Stolenbjorn Valued Member

    Yep. So it doesn't help if all your leaders are American (or Norwegian), if the contract states that you work for -say Iran, and will be prosecuted by Iranian law. I don't know much about the legal mumbo-jumbo myself, but I'm sure as (a certain place) that I would read my contract extremely well, probably together with a loyer before signing anything with Blackwater...

    The Norwegian "entrepeneurs" running ther "private company" in Uganda and Kongo sure as (the same place) obviously didn't read the laws about running a mercenary-unit and (beeing acused and sentenced for) killing people in those countries, and currently rot in Kisangani and have a lot of time pondering the wisdom of dropping the norwegian uniform but keeping their assault-rifles and keep doing military-like stuff abroad...

    In scandinavia, there's been several "discoveries" that norwegian, swedish and danish ex-policemen have been working for USA's foregin office, hired to spy on suspect norwegian, swedish and danish sub-cultures.
    The interresting part is, they worked for USA, and if everything they did was with the knowledge and blessing of the countries they worked in, everything's fine, but if they did this without, then they will be prosecuted as spies. The norwegians have allso been doing surveilance that exceeds the legal level of surveilance allowed in Norway. The big debate is if wether the respective gouvernments have known about this activity. (IMO they have known perfectly well, but havent got the guts to admit it, as it will enrage the left wing in our countries.)
     
  15. Wolf3001

    Wolf3001 Valued Member

    I know that the people that hire out mercenaries in Southeast Asia are told that if they fire on pirates or whatever that they are held legally responsible to whatever place operates in those waters. If say they shoot and kill someone around Singapore or whatever they must answer to their government and can be arrested not that America or whoever else may get involved. I have heard of people being caught with drugs in China and other places with very harsh punishments but the government back home got them back unharmed. Their are mercenaries all over the place they probably have ties to get their people out without the aid of their home country but the thing is the government can always say they had no connection with them and wash their hands of it all. I believe our government sent in mercenaries to do things that they didn't really want people knowing to much about and gives them a way to say it wasn't their problem they had no control. I don't think our country should be using mercenaries at least not if we care about our image it's probably cheaper than training others and stuff and still effective in war. I don't believe in rules you go get the job done and leave.
     
  16. Oriares

    Oriares Valued Member

    I'm confused as to what you mean here.
     
  17. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    Which is wonderful if you're fighting an attrition war and we're not involved in one of those. Other than that I think mercs are used for private security and basically do the normal day to day jobs soldiers shouldn't be freeing up time for and under those situations I think they do need rules and under the host country. Only time you should be doing anything violent should be in self defence
     
  18. Kuma

    Kuma Lurking about

    Mercenaries have been around in war a long time, the earliest being recorded during Ramses II's reign back in the BCs. Mercenaries tend to save the host country a lot of money, as you are getting well-trained troops to fight for pay that are ready now, unlike spending all the money needed to take a raw recruit and get him up to that level. Not to mention mercenaries tend to have a good amount of experience that they bring to the table, unlike the same raw recruit. It's pretty wise to use mercenaries when you can in the grand scheme of things.
     
  19. robertmap

    robertmap Valued Member

    Hmmmm, wonder what it would cost to get a couple to help me with my Tae Kwon Do sparring....

    No don't tell me....

    The TAGB rules don't allow it <SIGH>
     
  20. Wolf3001

    Wolf3001 Valued Member

    What im saying and my thoughts on the subject. We have had some issues because I feel our government is not controlling these groups well. It makes us look bad to other nations not that I really care im just stating it. I like the idea of mercenaries because you don't need to really train them or much of anything else. The common citizen here knows next to nothing of war and would probably throw a fit if they knew the sort of things our governments do. I think many nations have the mindset that things are only illegal if you get caught. Yet when someone is they are quick to point the finger and say ho bad you are. I don't really believe in rules when it comes to war but I feel that if we care what other nations think of us and we want to keep our country off other peoples **** lists we should hold ourselves to a higher standard. Personally I don't care I hate how we aid so many peoples and then they turn around and screw us later. I also dislike that we give weaponry and things to some. My feelings on war is that if we are convinced something needs to be done we go in do it and leave meaning no BS. I don't care if they are hiding in some religious hall I wouldn't give much quarter.
     

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