A sad day..

Discussion in 'Tai chi' started by cheesypeas, Jun 13, 2008.

  1. cheesypeas

    cheesypeas Moved on

    Tian Yin Jia (fourth generation master, son of Tian Zhao Lin - who was the adopted son of Yang Jian Hou - who was son of Yang Lu Chan ) died today aged 77 in the early hours after a long term illness with lung cancer.

    A sad day for his family and every TaiJiQuan student whose paths crossed with this remarkable and unassuming man.
  2. Dan Bian

    Dan Bian Neither Dan, nor Brian

    Sorry to hear about his passing.
  3. Dan Bian

    Dan Bian Neither Dan, nor Brian

    A clip of Master Tian Yin Jia performing Small Frame Yang style, for those who may be interested.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQeXthRy1rw"]small frame - YouTube[/ame]
  4. cheesypeas

    cheesypeas Moved on

    Thanks for putting that up.....doh...I should have I guess.

    Comments from other Taijiers out there???????

    Given the emotions his death has brought out, any comments I have could be tinged with bias.
  5. Hiroji

    Hiroji laugh often, love much

    Yeh im sorry to hear this.
  6. lieqi fan

    lieqi fan Valued Member

    Sorry to hear he's passed away.
    I would be interested in an explanation/justification of the hunched shoulders, which is inconsistent with what I've been taught.
  7. cheesypeas

    cheesypeas Moved on

    I am guessing thst he was already suffering from lung cancer when this was filmed...he still chainsmoked like the proverbial trooper.

    Watching him 'in the flesh' was awesome, and I've seen a lot of good Taijiers in my time.

    ***bearing in mind it is never what Taiji looks like on the outside, but what is going on inside. :Angel:
  8. apprentice

    apprentice Valued Member

    wow, this is a real wake up call for me. I am a smoker and since begining taichi I've really wanted to quit. It seems every time I turn around there is another reason. Here I see one great master dead at 77 and he was a smoker, and someone here is saying the suffering is obvious in his form. On the other hand in my own style there is a master I got to meet just yesterday. He is 86, survived Hepititus C, and still teaches taiji camps 20 weeks a year and performs long arborus meditation exersises right along with his 20 year old students, putting them to shame.

    This other guy survived to be 77. Imagine what he might have accomplished if he had given up the cancer sticks? I have a feeling taichi is all that kept him alive that long. What if the cancer hadn't been a factor...
  9. cheesypeas

    cheesypeas Moved on

    He had so much to pass on, but didn't live long enough to do so. Constant with Chinese Tradition, he had chosen his Tudi only a few years earlier, when he had reached a good age. He possessed a lot of the oral old knowledge and was, in person, a warm and humble man.

    Short story....I told him that I found his demonstration (the youtube clip) of his small frame astounding and breathtaking... He grinned at me and said "When I attempt to show my poor skills... I am sure I can hear the Immortals laughing'

    I was gobsmacked as, up until that time, A lot of TaiJiQuan "Masters" were pompous, arrogant and verging on the spiteful.

    I have since met a couple of highly skilled British born teachers who are humble and kind.

    Back to smoking....please...stop it at once!!!

    In my years of practicing TaiJi, I have met hundreds of students, all of them I got to know on some level. Of these, only six were smokers, with a further two 'occasional' smokers. This is much below any national average.

    Interesting, don't you think? :eek:
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2008
  10. Dan Bian

    Dan Bian Neither Dan, nor Brian

    Agreed - smoking = bad.

    Give up the coffin-nails.
  11. Prons

    Prons New Member

    It's a pity the worldh as lost a talent like this :)
  12. apprentice

    apprentice Valued Member

    Its only been a few hours since I quit, but so far so good, just a dull head ache. I think what is making this time so much different than other times I tried to quit is perspective. Whenever I get the craving to go outside and smoke I go take a 'taichi break' instead, just practicing form and standing meditation about the same amount of time I would have spent downing a cigarette or two. It helps alot.
  13. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    This line of Yang comes from Yang Jian Hou. From past discussions on various forums the UK representative described it as 'turtle back' and is as far as i know very much part of the style rather than you're seeing a sympton of the mans older age or sickness.

    Arguably the technique is a legitimate tool for power generation. Though I think what the big argument over it was that people adopted the posture throughout form & practice ,which can be seen as less than healthy for your body posture long term..

    Having a search on the terms ‘turtle back taichi’ to see what comes up. You should find a mega thread over at shenwu (Tim Cartmells site) where there is strong (and long) discussion about it all..

    Here it is
    (4th link down particularly this gets discussed)

    There also a few other interesting bits and pieces like.
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2008
  14. yin-yang hands

    yin-yang hands New Member

    This is essentially right from what I was told, but turtle back only applies to Lu Chan's small frame, which is the small dem in the clip, it is a form of coil and release that is called "drawing the bow". It is not used in the middle frame of Jian Hou or the large frame of Cheng Fu. We were told the large frame is the health form, the middle frame the application form, and the small frame the fighting form. So it would never be used in a health form, it is not in middle frame as the fajin was removed from middle frame and practised as a seperate exercise to develop it as part of the yang family 8 brocades. On learning middle frame and the applications you then re-incorporate it over time which then leads you into small frame.

    Some of the other more extreme elements were taken out of the form and incorporated in the 8 brocades so the form could be slowed down for detailed understanding. So small frame is fast, middle frame starts as slow but as you re-incorporate the 8 brocades back in it becomes fast slow and large frame is all slow.

    This is the Yang Family 8 brocades [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0DLuiBBkNs"]Yang Family Baduan Jin - YouTube[/ame]
  15. Slovenly Zhang

    Slovenly Zhang Valued Member

    I would take this with a pinch of salt, if I were you. It smacks of elitism.
    Any Tai Chi frame can be used for fighting - this is what the art was developed for.
    Naturally in combat, you condense the movements so that you are fighting in a "smaller frame". However, large frames help to develop the body skills needed to be proficient - opening the kua, developing leg strength, learning to shift weight, rooting, leading from the waist...
    But when it's crunch time, everything happens in a small frame.

    I believe that once you have a good degree of body skills, you can begin practicing your boxing form in middle and small frames, as long as you continue practicing large frame to continue re-enforcing your foundation.
  16. Fire-quan

    Fire-quan Banned Banned

    "Exaggeration" of some postures, like horse stances, say, are really not exaggerations but simple training ideas, like weight training your legs by deep stance training.

    But, would you practice a hook punch as big and exaggerated as possible, to train the "foundation kills" of hook punch, hoping to "make it smaller" come crunch time? Basically, you become better at what you train at, and reinforce the things in your body that you actually practice. Supplimental training is one thing... but...what's happening is a good idea in one area is being used to justify poor training in another.
  17. Slovenly Zhang

    Slovenly Zhang Valued Member

    I believe I understand what you are getting at :)

    Of course, there may be times when you need a longer hook punch, or a shorter hook punch. Luckily, most Tai Chi forms have these different techniques within them.

    It is up to the individual to practice these techniques in a realistic manner, however!
    I have often seen people practicing (so-called) push-hands whilst having a chat with their partner, or even another pair of practitioners! Good skill cannot be developed in this manner.
    And many schools in this time fail to practice combat applications, and those that do practice often propogate useless "A does X, so B counters with Y" and they never build on this. It is always done slowly, never in real time.

    Unfortunately, the last few decades has seen the gradual decline of gongfu within wushu.
  18. yin-yang hands

    yin-yang hands New Member

    You may want to view this, it has pictures of the funeral. Link to news.

  19. Fire-quan

    Fire-quan Banned Banned

    Well, I agree, and what we need to consider is how we change that, at least within our own training, then hopefully influencing those around us, and so on.

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