A question about burning fat and building muscle.

Discussion in 'Health and Fitness' started by No Life King, Oct 24, 2005.

  1. No Life King

    No Life King New Member

    OK, so i want to burn some fat, and build some muscle, i know that in order to burn fat i need to do lots of cardio and the such, running etc. and for muscle, weights and muscle building exercises. i am also aware that to burn fat you burn more calories than you consume, and for building muscle you need more calories. my question is, it seems that you cant burn fat while you build muscle, or can you? and if not, is it better to burn fat first and then build muscle, or viceversa? thanks for the input. :)
  2. Prophet

    Prophet ♥ H&F ♥

    Usually, if you are a noobie to training it is possible to shed some fat while building a little muscle. But that will quickly stop.

    Without getting into recomposition, the most perfered and used method is the "bulk then cut".

    First, you go on a hypercaloric diet (more calories than you burn) to "bulk up". This is optimal for building muscle, and some fat gain is acceptable.

    Then, you "cut" by going on a hypocaloric diet. The goal here is to lose fat while maintaining as much muscle as possible. Losing a bit of muscle is acceptable.
  3. Blake_AE

    Blake_AE Valued Member

    When you do your cardio for cutting fat, stay with slow speeds, I think 60-70% of the max heart rate. A rule of thumb I've read is stick to a pace where you can easily carry on a conversation while jogging without going short of breath. It's at this pace that will burn more fat than carbs or protein. This starts somewhere around the 15-20 min mark and last up to roughly one hour.

    Google "slow cardio burn fat" or something similar. Here is a bodybuilding.com article on it http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/bobchic3.htm but I've read the same thing on Runnersworld forums, and other athletic sites.
  4. aml01_ph

    aml01_ph Urrgggh...

    Or you can do strength interval training. Lets say for example in running. Instead of running for a long period, why not run all out for a given distance in sets with the appropriate rest periods in between. This method has been proven to increase cardiovascular fitness, retain muscle mass, and burn lots of calories.
  5. fixationdarknes

    fixationdarknes Valued Member

    Yes, sprint intervals work better than long drawn-out cardio for burning fat more efficiently. And besides, if you're a martial artist, you don't need aerobic training. Martial arts is all anaerobic, just like sprint intervals.

    And Prophet explained it pretty well.
  6. Athleng Nordic

    Athleng Nordic Sadly passed away. RIP. Supporter

    I've heard the point about the slow cardoi for fat burning, but slow jogging more than once a week is death to your knees. Add in some stationary cardio equipment work. Circuit training with skipping inbetween is another great fat burner workout.
  7. Ren-shi-shin

    Ren-shi-shin New Member

    This is a fallacy. Martial arts, in the sense that if you fight one 3-minute round, is anaerobic, but if you want to get through 10-15 rounds, it combines aerobic and anaerobic needs. Most estimates for a sport like boxing, kickboxing, or olympic tkd are that aerobic is 20-30% of your needs, and anaerobic 70%.
    You need to build a good aerobic base behind your anaerobic training, other wise, you'll be flat out by the middle of a fight.

    Put fighting aside, and you need aerobic capabilities to get through a 2-hour class. Combine aerobic, anaerobic and strength training, and you'll get the results you need.
  8. wynnema

    wynnema Valued Member

    how do you reach this conclusion?
  9. Athleng Nordic

    Athleng Nordic Sadly passed away. RIP. Supporter

    Experience, mostly it's due to poor stride and form when running combined with ****-poor shoes. This is the biggest cause, and most people won't spend the money on the right kind of running shoe for thier feet and stride, and won't take the time to research proper form, and part of that will involve running with someone who know's what they are doing.

    So jogging is all well and fine if you spend the time and money. I did and enjoy running all the time. I threw that out because most, as I said above, either can't or won't spend the time and money. I hope that answers your question.
  10. No Life King

    No Life King New Member

    thank you all for your replies, they were very helpful and informative, one last thing, would it be possible to burn fat while building muscle, if so, is it just combining muscle building exercises with fat burning ones(like mondays do muscle, tuesdays do fat, something like that?) but what about the diet? thanks for the input.
  11. pgm316

    pgm316 lifting metal

    Although, does the slow cardio work burn more callories?

    For sprint training on a gym running machine what intervals would you use?
  12. BoxBabaX

    BoxBabaX H+F Baba ^^

    Initially (right after you get off the machine), slow cardio will have burned more calories than HIIT BUT, HIIT burns a larger amount of total calories by increasing your metabolism for several hours after exercise. It is also not as catabolic for your muscles.

    Not really sure how you could incorperate this into the machines at the gym though, depends on there options.

    edit: OOO, this is a pretty cool article about it, good ol' exrx :D http://www.exrx.net/FatLoss/HIITvsET.html
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2005
  13. pgm316

    pgm316 lifting metal


    I've been doing some sprints on the running machine, although been slowing down to a slow jog to recover, should I walk or even stop?

    Back to the original question, how effective is trying to gain muscle while losing fat? Or should you concentrate on one or the other :confused:
  14. BoxBabaX

    BoxBabaX H+F Baba ^^

    nope, slow jog is good. Prophet pretty much answered the gain muscle/ lose fat question above, it is difficult, and without a "recomposition"(more info on that at avant labs- It is basically a slow yet steady body transformation where you seek to both lose body fat and gain lean body mass) it is more effective to just gain mass, then lose fat. Remmember your not gonna be puting on a ton of fat here(for a MA'ist), just sometimes a few excess pounds, which you can later "cut" and get rid off.
  15. pgm316

    pgm316 lifting metal

    Last question :D

    When on the cutting phase, would you carry on with your normal routine, or stop doing weights and concentrate on weight loss/ cardio training?
  16. Athleng Nordic

    Athleng Nordic Sadly passed away. RIP. Supporter

    I'd lighten it up and do more reps and then pound the cardio hard.
  17. BoxBabaX

    BoxBabaX H+F Baba ^^

    forgot to mention that i went to class after my last post :p, you should continue lifting weights, but wheather or not to maintain your current routine depends on how rigorous it is. Dont expect to set any PR's while cutting, but aim more for maintenence of strength. Hope that helps :D
  18. Prophet

    Prophet ♥ H&F ♥

    I wouldnt increase the reps, But I would look to maintain my strength.
  19. Athleng Nordic

    Athleng Nordic Sadly passed away. RIP. Supporter

    Educate me. I thought to maintain strength during a fat loss phase the idea was to boost reps and lower the weight. This would also help in the fat loss. Or am I off and need a swift kick to the head. Boot to the head!
  20. No Life King

    No Life King New Member

    wow thank you for the very informative replies, so gain lean muscle first and then burn fat, allright. while building muscle, i thought the best way to do it was to have a heavy session and a light session, so 2 sessions a week to let the muscles recover. is this correct? if not correct me, also, in the in-between time of rest, would it be detrimental to run or do bag work etc.? thank you for the input.

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