I don't think he was being entirley serious.... I am a little woried by Krispies sweep fetish though. Ok you don't reach, but what is the rapist supposed to do while you set up? Try and pass? bcullen, thanks for sharing - it must have been hard for you.
You dont need to do anything special to set up a sweep. Just do it. As for the eye gouges, Im sure that the do work sometimes. Put Im not gonna make that gamble that theyl pass out.
But you ARE willing to gamble that you can teach and effective sweep to someone in a very short course with no external practice! Look I agree that the swep is best for you AND me - but that is not the issue. Again I ask, can YOU sweep Bob Sapp? Can you gouge him? Be honest! Happy training - whatever you use!
Perhaps with a limited time span for the training you should try to address awareness and the psychology of conflict. Those who become aware may see the need for extended MA practice and experience. I met a lovely self defence instructor through work who gave us a 2 hour course with all the usual wrist grab, hair pull stuff and ended it by wishing everyone the best of luck cos what he taught us would only work if we were prepared to practice it every day and he hoped that we would join a club.
Bob Sapp is gonna kill me regardless. "But you ARE willing to gamble that you can teach and effective sweep to someone in a very short course with no external practice!" No, not really. I would teach prevention and weapons.
I'd agree with most of you, in that I don't think that you can learn to apply most ju jitsu techniques effectively within 12 hours of class time, but, just to add my two bob... 1) Ickiness The main thing that needs to be breeched with ordinary women is, as Freeform suggested, the 'ickiness' factor. You big strong fellas are much more happy with the idea of hurting someone who hurts you than the average non-MAist female. We had a discussion about this on the Women's Self Defense section, where we looked at using various methods of getting women to 'go for it' on strikes, gouges, etc. There were some very good suggestions. 2) Space As other people have mentioned, it's not enough to just look at what do do when you get into the physical position of having someone pinning you down. I've been doing groundwork for years, but I wouldn't fancy my chances if I was pinned by a much larger, violent attacker. As Geoff Thompson is says, it's vital to look at the beginnings of an encounter. I'm a fan of the drills that the police do for warning people who are getting too close- 'Stand back', etc, etc. It's important to be clear in your head what is and isn't acceptable behaviour and to be assertive when that space is encroached. 3) Verbals Sexual assaults on women (and many assaults in general) are very often preceeded by a huge amount of verbal intimidation which 'softens up' the victim. This is particularly true where the assault is by someone known to the victim. Once again, you need to teach women to be more assertive and confident in reacting to unwanted behaviour. Think about when people are asked to do Kiai's (or whatever) for the first time in MA classes. They don't even want to shout when everyone else is doing it, so there is little chance that they will tell someone to 'move away' in a frightening situation. It needs to be drilled into people again and again. Make them shout and scream! 4)Whatever Overall, I think you blokes are being a bit hard on yourselves when it comes to the 'effectiveness' of the techniques for women. According to research by criminal pyschologists, the more a woman physically resists an attack in it's early stages, the greater the chance she has of getting away. They want a victim, not an opponent. So, if you lot teach a woman to punch, rip, gouge, palm heel, elbow, kick, rip, spit or shout more effectively and more assertively, you are hugely improving her chances of getting away. In addition to the fact that people become more aware and more assertive in doing martial arts and so are less likely to be attacked in the first place.
The only thing i have to add to this is that i would not think knives and guns are such a great idea. If you have never fired a gun before it is unlikely you would be able to do so and hit anything under the kind of stressfull situation we are talking about. In fact, i would say that it is more likely the gun would be wrestled from you if you are in the kind of close in struggle that is being talked about. As for knives, i find it difficult to believe that many women would actually be capable of summoning the courage and strength of will to stab somebody in the situation described. The ickiness factor is a real issue here, but i guess it depends on the person. I personally doubt that any of my female friends would be able to do it. Pepper spray and the rest are a very good idea though, prevention does seem to be the way to go.
They ARE gonna have to put in some work. Of course they cant do the things initially. Thats why theyre there. So they can.
In a game of wrestling maybe this would work, but a fight to protect oneself in a rape situation requires real fighting. Eye Gouge! Ear clap! Scratch! Bite! Drive fingers or fingernails into the throat just below the adam's apple. If a rape victom trys to wrestle and hope to pin her attacker with a NHB arm bar or choke my bet is going to be on the attacker every time. If you can kick out a knee or kick the groin before the mount attempt do that too.
Most of what Ive seen in this thread so far has been valid arguments that Ive disagreed with. Your argument is not. Grappling can be used in real fighting. "NHB armbars" (everyone else just calls them armbars) and chokes are NOT used to pin. Chokes kill people. Joint locks such as the armbar cripple them. If I use those techniques with truely malicious intent, there is no game. Youre gonna die. To say that she wouldnt have time to learn the techniques is a short seminar is a fair point that I disagree with. To say that they just dont work is ignorance.
fairly simple technique I don't want to get into the arguments in this thread about effectiveness of BJJ or complicated technical grappling after 12 hours of lessons. I just want to share the technique my style teaches, and if ti seems easy to learn in that short time then that's OK, and if not then forget it. The technique sets up from the attacker having his legs on the outside of the victim's legs but I think it will work either way. ti begins with the victim striking the shortribs of the attacker with both hands using palmheel or thumb-pointed fist (I forget the name for it now but its a fist with the thumb knuckle pushed up, strike with the thumb knuckle) This should immediately be followed by downward strikes to the attacker's forearms just below the elbows. There are some presure points there but don;t worry aoubt that - just strike hard trying to bend the elbow. This should bring the attacker's head into range. I suppose if the attacker already had his head bent down close to the victim the first strikes might not be needed. I'll have to look into that... Now, place your left hand behind the attacker head and the right hand across the nose, hooking the fingers into the attackers left eye socket (gouge away!). Twist the head by pulling your left and pushing your right. Do this vigorously enough and you might kill him. But short of that, enough twist will cause your attacker to roll off of you to your left. Straighten the left leg as he rolls off so that it is not trapped under him. Now at this point we are taught to follow them over, get a mount on them, and strike to the throat or eyes. But if I was trying to escape a rape I might just let go get up and run. And yell for help. If you have any luck at all the atacker could have one or more cracked floating ribs, a damaged eye and a sprained neck. These aren't debilitating injuries but they might put him out of the mood for rape, or buy you a few seconds head start in the foot race to safety.
I did not say that these techniques do not work and yes they can be very effective in a self defense situation. But, if you are talking about a woman being wrestled into a rape position by what I am assuming is a stronger man then she as the victom is better off striking , biting, eye gouging, etc.. I would not encourage any woman or man for that matter to try and wrestle out of a situation where they are out weighed and weeker. (The NHB arm bar was a reference to No Holds Barred techniques, and given the right situation the arm bar and chokes are as devistatiing as you mention)
I beat larger opponents all the time. And I suck. If someone untrained initiates grappling and you have anything near reasonable ability, you can kick their ass regardless of size. Chokes and jointlocks will work no matter the size or strength of the opponent. Now, someone incapable of using these due to skill may actually be better off with the tactics you suggested, but thats not at all what you said. If you can use these skills you'll be far better off doing so than trying to rely on eye gouges and biting. Chokes are absolute. They can be a 300lb PCP Incredible Hulk impersonator, but they will sleep. Jointlocks disable limbs. Pop a joint or two and theyre done. Not as cold as chokes though which is why you still finish them with one. You can poke them if you want though. See how far it gets you. Im not gonna throw all my training out the window though due to giving up a little weight. Im gonna snap their limbs and put them to sleep. And thats if Im nice.
Never throw away your training. We may not be arguing about the same thing. I am trying to give advice to some one (women in particular) who are defending them selves in a rape situation. You are right to say that chokes and joint manipulation are great techniques. They are,however, tricky to perform even with the best of training. If you are skilled enough to get someone in a choke or arm lock it is going to have to be preceded by some other technique to distract them. ie . Poke their eye out then get them into a joint manipulation to pop an elbow or to snap the wrist. I am not saying that what you are proposing is impossible, because these things are very possible. It's just that in a rape situation your techniques might need a little pre-technique to make them work. Teaching self defense has to be workable for the average. So, if I look around my office there are 15 women of various sizes and shapes and there are about 8 men, also of diferent sizes ages and shapes. If I imagine any one of these women defending themselves against any one of these men I can see only 1 woman being able to out manouver the weakest man if she was properly trained of course. I am basing my hypothosis purely on imagination and observation of their physical strength. I would say that if these women were trained to poke, claw, bite,etc. their chances of winning would be a lot greater than if they were sent them to a grappling class for a any length of time.
