i work for a runaway center, and teach self-defense to our volunteers in my agency and many others. it is not anything incredibly difficult - mainly simple manuevers and strikes to escape a situation. the sessions at other agencies or in the community are only one day for 4 hours - i know you all share my frustration with the time constraints. many of the volunteers, co-workers, and community members that attend the sessions are female. an alarming wave of sexual assaults and rapes have occured in a very short time, and many of my students are terrified for their safety. i have been hit with a barrage of requests for ways to escape a rape situation - i.e., the female is flat on her back, and the male is attempting to penetrate her. the size, weight, and strength differences between my participants is incredibly broad, but the women weigh considerably less than the men. keeping in mind the brief period of training sessions, could anyone help me strategize methods to escape this situation (especially how petite females (many of my female students are 120 pounds or so - or so at least that's what they tell me! j.k.) could manuever out of being pinned by a much heavier and stronger opponent? i appreciate any and all feedback. Thanx
Here is a move we use in judo. The attacker is lying prone legs splayed and the assailant is dominating above trying to choke the person out (this is exactly the possition you described only the defence is different, but the technique applies). The victim grabs onto the assailants left arm with both hands near the wrist. Then the assailant uses the leverage to scoot the hips the left of the attackers hips. Both legs come up and around to the front of the opponent. The left leg crosses the attackers neck and the right leg crosses the attackers chest fitting under the armpit. Then the victim, now the attacker, flexes and straightens out driving the assailant towards the floor WHILE HOLDING ONTO THE LEFT ARM AT THE WRIST WITH BOTH HANDS. Presto Chango you have a two second arm bar! Let me know if you can visualize this or if you need some more description. I'm sure we can all come up with more than the usual aim for throat and groin type stuff. Classic as it is, sometimes it is impractical. Again, hope this helps!
this is the same technique we learn eightfold, but we also learn a very effective one which works every time. The person is on top of you with legs either side kneeling and with their hands going for your throat. immediately get youur index fingers under the pressure point where ears join head and thrust hips up and to one side whilst pushing the same way with fingers. person will always get off if you have the pressure point right!
Forget anything that involves body mechanics of a complex nature or that requires training - they do not have the luxury. Also any technique involving a pressure point or joint lock is useless as they require fine motor skills which are simply absent from a rape situation. Bear in mind that most rapists will not think twice about punching a victim to acheive compliance. This means a technique has to be fast and instantly effective. I used to teach them to gouge the eyes using thumbs. When an attacker goes to penetrate he must remove at least one hand to remove the victims clothing, his clothing or to expose his member. When this is occuring is an ideal window to attack. As the hand goes back go straight to the eyes (or just the eye if one hand is pinned). Then the female can push him off with a greater degree of ease. Additionally the feet can be placed on the hips to allow a "push away". In cases where the assailant is close in then the best advice is to bite and tear. Yes it is unpalatable, but it is also very alarming for the recipient. Bite deep and rip away. Bear in mind HIV etc obviously, but then compare it to the alternative. Any biting/ripping combo is the best they will get in such a short amount of training. Also they are easy to use and very effective - why do you think they are banned in NHB? Because an untrained brawler can end a fight against a much better opponent with such a "dirty" tactic. They also afford the advantage of getting the attacker's DNA (bloodstains from a wound) and also they will mark the attacker for potential ID at a later date.
Being one your back and being raped, is a looks like a standard BJJ guard (obviously with a lot more volience). Maybe teaching , transtition to the open guard . Moving their feet on to the attacker's hips and in their stituation extending there legs, pushing the attacker off of them. This would stop peneration. From there, they can used their feet to kick, and at least have a chance of running away. But with that, they might be able to stop the sexual part of the assault.
If someone is charging directly into the open gaurd, the one on the bottom is not the one in danger of being raped. First of all teach closed gaurd, open gaurd, and butterfly gaurd. Teach controlling the opponents bas from this position. Then teach scissor sweeps, hip sweeps, push sweeps, and butterfly sweeps and any other relevant sweeping techniques. After thats been learned teach triangles, armbars and a collar choke. This shouldnt take too long to get and at the very least the knowledge that that is a strong fighting position shuld prove useful.
Sorry but this is NOT going to work in a million years. Remember they need something that can be used under duress adn within a short space of time. Frankly, as much as I love BJJ, it does not fit the bill in this scenario. Gouge, bite, push run - that's all that is going to work on sucha very short course
I disagree, eventhough the sweep and stuff would be hard to pull off. The basics would help greatly. Keeping the attacker away with an open guard, can buy some time and will make the attacker think twice. kick bite and stratch should be a option, but if the attck is always that close, it proabably too late.
"Sorry but this is NOT going to work in a million years. Remember they need something that can be used under duress adn within a short space of time." Right...So what youre saying is that youd rather have them flailing away from underneath as opposed to making use of simple, escape oriented tactics? Scratching and biting are better than destabilizing them and getting up? And if that fails they have another line of defense with triangles and such. If women have limited time to learn self defense they dont need to learn to scratch and bite. They aready know that. If the course is to short to teach actual self defense, then its a bad course. If all that was needed to protect yourself from some maniac was scratching and biting then martial arts would be obslete. There is no quick fix to personal protection. If you want that get a gun.
And if the woman cant go the two weeks or so that t takes to learn this without getting raped theres a major problem.
i think that rather than argue what would work, what style is the best, what tactic is the best (these have already been stated in other threads)... it would be more beneficial to your students to concentrate on the basics.... i am an assistant instructor in a women's self-defense course that runs the entire semester... we usually only teach basics and fundamentals.. but the one time a student asked me "what to do in X situation?" i showed a technique that i use from ju jutsu and bjj and i showed it to her avbout 10 times over the course of the semester (cuz she would always forget something)....however, i saw this same student i asked her about the techniques and she said that she forgot most of them!!! the truth is these techniques to the average person are UBER (very) complicated and involve many years of practice... i have found that unless a student trains hard in a self defense art, these moves that you try to teach will not come out automatically under a stressful situation and that they will stand there thinking, "hmmm what did the sensei tell me to do here.... oh wait i supposed to do something..with his.... oh no im dead" (over dramatized)........ i find that its more important especially if you're only meeting them for a once a week situation to always show basics and fundamentals (ie maintaining base, awareness, prevention...etc. etc.) because these are the most important aspects of self defense... maybe if they actually start taking classes from you then you should continue unto more advanced techniques(open guard sweeps, submissions, etc. etc.)
Themastersword makes a good point, in a stressful situuation the average person with only a few weeks training will forget everything and resort to the "flailing scratching" tactics which are unlikely to work. teaching them where to hit to really do damage and how to hit may be a better plan. Show them the solar plexus etc and how to hit people properly and they are more likely to remember it than a complicated, or even a basic, technique.
Which was my point exactly! I love BJJ but the first post quite clearly stated that time was limited. BJJ requires time that is not available
Yeh, but it will actually work. You can take a short cut and try to win off of cheap shots, but that wont really be all too effective. If all self defense took was a few seminars, martial arts would be obslete. You get out of it what you put into it.
Yes it will work if you practice regularly and if you are able to apply it under duress and if you are not having your clothes torn from you and if the rapist has placed you in a "classic" guard in the first place. How can you sweep from a sofa? Or from a dirty alleyway? Or if you are outweighed by a drunken, slobbering man who outweighs you by 100lbs? Of couse it can be done, but the probability of managing it sucessfully decreases tremendously if the scenario you encounter is not 100% as practiced. Again, if gouging and scratching are ineffective (which I might add they are not) then why are they banned from NHB competitions? Simple THEY WORK TOO EASILY AND CAUSE A LOT OF DAMAGE WITH MINIMUM SKILL. Could you sweep Bob Sapp? I haven't met you but I will guarantee the answer is "No". Could you blind him in one eye and rip a piece of his face off? Hell yes! I practice JKD/BJJ/Trad JJ/Boxing, but I am under no illusions that a good bite or gouge will knock me for 6. In fact, I make a personal study of "kino-mutai" for those very reasons - it is a great equaliser. Try this test. Find an inexperienced lady friend, preferably slight in build, and put her on her back with a guard. Teach here the simple scissor sweep in 5 minutes or less. Then show her a double thumb gouge, face bite and kick off combination again in less than five minutes. One week later put her in the same position and get her to repeat them both. Which do you think she will be able to re-produce? Then try the same test but with "resistance" from the attacker. Which one do you think will work best? Self-Protection and Martial Arts are NOT the same at all. One is a series of techniques to enable someone to develop physically, spiritually and emotionally where as the other can be a matter of life and death. You never "win" a street attack - you survive it. Think on.
ok hannibal, you got me convinced....................though i am not sure that you really are the law!
1 completely contradicts your argument against bjj. Additionally how do you properly practice to "blind him in one eye and rip a piece of his face off". I'm actually pretty curious. As for 2, most of those things were allowed in the UFC before John McCann and there are tourneys in brazil and elsewhere that allow most anything (vt). And again how do you realistically practice those things. As for 3, 4 and 5, I agree they are unlikely to be able to either learn or do them effectively, I also doubt without practicing they'll have much success with any of the options you listed on their own. Heck, I suck at sweeps but I wish I could teach them to my wife.
Eye gouges and biting and the like were banned from NHB because of politics. At first they were allowed and they made no difference. The thing is, that while they injure, they dont disable or change positions. Basically, you hurt them and then they beat your ass. Way to go. However, if you learn a REAL technique, you can disable your opponent. Lets say two people fight. One eyegouges the other guy. The other guy fights on and uses a real technique. Lets say a triangle choke. One of these guys is severely injured, but can fight on. The other just might die. Which is which? "Try this test. Find an inexperienced lady friend, preferably slight in build, and put her on her back with a guard." Sounding good so far. "Teach here the simple scissor sweep in 5 minutes or less." Oh, thats what you had in mind. "One week later put her in the same position and get her to repeat them both. Which do you think she will be able to re-produce?" The eye gouges and the like. "Then try the same test but with "resistance" from the attacker. Which one do you think will work best?" Niether. Not on me anyway. However, lets say that I know nothing. If she gouges my eyes, she's dead. Im gonna remove her hands, control them, tuck my head thank her for the adrenaline rush and beat her head in. She shouldnt have been worrying about hurting me and instead getting away. And this is if it works RIGHT. If anything goes wrong shes in evemn worse trouble. The scissor sweep is gonna work a lot better. If it works, she has a 100% chance of being in a better position as thats what its designed for. If it fails, she can go try again as she now has space and didnt provoke a murderous response. "How can you sweep from a sofa?" Id triangle choke actually if someone was attacking me on a couch as my legs are higher. "Or from a dirty alleyway?" Easily. "Or if you are outweighed by a drunken, slobbering man who outweighs you by 100lbs?" Ive rolled with trained opponents of that size. They clobber me, but my techniques are still valid. If they were untrained and drunk, they wouldnt have stood a chance. "Self-Protection and Martial Arts are NOT the same at all. One is a series of techniques to enable someone to develop physically, spiritually and emotionally where as the other can be a matter of life and death." My martial arts IS a matter of life and death. I can easily crush, choke and strangle opponents using my basic techniques.
God I love a good heated debate The crux of the problem guys, is that yes, basic techniques will allow a physically inferior woman to handle a larger stronger untrained male aggressor. The problem being is that the level of skill will take more than a 6 week course to develop and maitain. This is the crux, can we come up with a solution? Play nice boys, Col
No, there is no other solution than hardwork. A couple seminars will not enable you to defeat predatory opponents. You nee techniques that work and you need the drive to perfect your application of them. If you want to deal out instant death, get a gun. Maybe a knife. Even then, youve got to learn to use them.
