A letter to Chris Kent from PFS

Discussion in 'Jeet Kune Do' started by Hannibal, Aug 7, 2011.

  1. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Me too - it is not what I wanted to happen, but now it is aired hopefully something good will come of it
     
  2. february

    february Valued Member

    What an utter load of w@nk JKD is. So glad I'm not a part of it anymore.

    Both parties involved in this are just as idiotic as the other.
     
  3. february

    february Valued Member

    What an utter load of w@nk JKD is. So glad I'm not a part of it anymore.

    Both parties involved in this are just as idiotic as the other.
     
  4. MWAW

    MWAW Valued Member

    Nothing good was ever going to come of this, which is represented by the unanimously negative response to this thread.

    Can I suggest that you delete this thread before it does any further damage.
     
  5. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    I think it should stay.

    Regardless of how it ends there needs to be transparency. The letter was posted by request - ill advised or otherwise it is out there.

    Deleting the thread is revisionism and regardless of intentions is to be avoided. At least if it stays there is no rumour about what was said - it stays out there to be learned from
     
  6. february

    february Valued Member

    Pfft.

    The only thing that can be learned from this whole pathetic saga is how easily grown men can be reduced to whiney little bitches the minute their ego's get bruised

    No profound insights beyond the above here people.
     
  7. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Or maybe the lesson is that people in a family should talk more and post less

    JKD has been warring for so long now something just has to give
     
  8. Sifu TimR

    Sifu TimR New Member

    Truth

    Chris,

    It is true about what you say, Bruce Lee has been practicing the totality of combat since the beginning, and that it is not about the names and styles which comprise the totality of combat, and more about the science of human movement, efficiency and the ability to express the human body in combative form without any restriction or confinement. However, it is disrespectful and silly to disregard the teaching methods employed by Guru Dan Inosanto and Sifu Paul Vunak to try and make your point. In your article, you make many back-handed references that try and discredit the teachings and philosophies of other instructors, and definitely are taking peoples descriptions and words out of context… No one is debating that Bruce was the pinnacle and embodiment of JKD, self improvement and reaching the highest level of physical human potential. However, as an instructor trying to teach and help students reach their full potential, it is often necessary to start from the beginning and learn the foundations and origins of all movement, techniques, and fighting styles to better understand how to seamlessly flow from art to art, and range to range. Just as Bruce himself learned, you must first learn a structure and system before you can leave it behind. It is silly to say I fight with no style therefore I am doing JKD before actually mastering and evolving oneself to not be limited by the techniques or methods of any particular art.

    “Before I studied the art, a punch to me was just like a punch, a kick just like a kick. After I learned the art, a punch was no longer a punch, a kick no longer a kick. Now that I've understood the art, a punch is just like a punch, a kick just like a kick.”
    -Bruce Lee

    In your article it is offensive that you speak as though Dan Inosanto and Paul Vunak have some how deviated from the core and essence of Sijo Bruce Lees teachings and methods, by speaking to JKD with terms such as concepts or contemporary. On the contrary I believe that these two gentlemen have preserved the teachings and philosophy of Jeet Kune Do and are two of the best instructors in the world in regards to teaching one to survive through the totality of combat and reach their full human potential…

    One can say that there is only one JKD and no other terms need to be created to describe it. This might be true in essence and philosophy, however we all know that there are many different schools of thought around what should be included in a JKD curriculum, and there is a big difference between the training methods practiced and taught in the traditional JKD curriculum and those employed in the Contemporary JKD curriculum. Therefore it is sometimes necessary to differentiate not only the similarities in systems, but also the differences to allow people to best seek out the tutelage that best suits their needs.

    Self improvement is the core foundation of the Jeet Kune Do process and should be the focus of ones search on the path to self discovery…

    We must not disrespect and so easily forget those who have helped us on our path…
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2011
  9. jkd777

    jkd777 Valued Member

    My name is Marcus Charles I am a Senoir Instructor under Paul Vunak. I have known Paul for over 2o years I am proud to call him my instructor and friend. I have known Singh less but we have become friends as well. I have never seen Paul as irrate as he about this article poste by Chris Kent. I find it very unproffesional to put down and attack a colleque in our community. But putting aside emotion and lets look at facts.
    Bruce Lee wrote in the Tao that jkd is just a name not to fus over it. Well that is exactly what this article is doing. Who cares what someone wants to call jkd giving it a new name only makes it frsh and alive not stagnate. Also Bruce Lee said that martial arts is way to express yourself honestly. Yes there is nothing new under the sun but how is the new generation supposed to learn. All Singh was doing is putting his own spin on it. His own JKD. I back him up all the way on that article. YesChris Kent was also expressing himself physically and honsetly but does he want Paul to do the same??
    Get it!
    t is a shame that Chris Kent has to reservice old battles in public and the new generation of students have to see it. I come from an era in JKD/Kali where we would go out and field test what we have learned. JKD has come along way in getting respect and honor from the main stream communties. How does it refect on us when people see someone respond to an article in such an unproffesional and childish way. What would Sigung Bruce say if he knew that his art and or concept that he dedicated his life to and died for is being dragged thru the mud by instructors who were given the right to pass it on to others? Paper Dragen comes to mind What a shame. Well we get what we focus on so why focus on the negative unfortunatlly when we do reprocussion are bound to happen. Thanks for great article Singh in Black Belt I think I will go online and get a few more issues Bro! Loyalty always Paul Tom and Singh Marcus
     
  10. SigmaFighting

    SigmaFighting New Member

    The only reason that I can think of to write an article like this is exposure and free publicity. So I am going to ignore the article completely and say this...

    I've studied under Sigung Vunak for over a decade and I know what he teaches is very applicable and useful in real street fighting situations. From all that I have read about Bruce Lee, this is really where he was focused in his martial arts research. If that's what you're looking for I highly recommend training with a certified instructor from Vunak's instructors.

    I suspect this article will generate much more heat than that even seen on this forum. I would say to any article writer out there you should probably remember that not all martial artists are passivists.
     
  11. TDA

    TDA New Member

    Holly ****,
    Some of you people really need to take a look between your legs and see if your balls are still there… I mean really. PFS guys are not thugs we are not out looking for violence; on the contrary our organization is full of spiritual and loving Instructors which is evident by the fact that we all volunteer our time to work with disabled children. I saw a reference to thugs and gangs and that doesn’t sound like any gang I know of. Now we are offended and are willing to do whatever is necessary to stand up for the instructor that we love. We didn’t strike the first blow but you can bet your ass we aren’t going to just sit around and let someone disrespect us, our organization, and our instructor. You think this isn’t enough grounds for us to get so worked up about; entire countries have gone to war over something as simple as disrespect. All we are trying to do is shut up one big mouthed wannabe that tries to make himself legit by running down the JKD Instructors that actually know what they are doing. Aside from that, isn’t this a martial arts forum…I had to double check but yes it is. More so are we not talking about JKD and in that since Bruce Lee… Bruce fought constantly to prove his effectiveness and defiantly didn’t allow anyone to disrespect him without repercussions. So why is it so surprising to you that JKD instructors are willing to stand up and ask this douche to back up all the things he writes about. Nobody forced him to write those things, if you can’t handle a bunch of ****ed off instructors than don’t talk **** about their instructor.

    Now that we got that out of the way for those of you who are not involved but have graced us with your comments , I can see how you would be confused into believing that this was a general discussion of Mr. Kunts opinions about JKD and all JKD organizations. However the majority of the article was directed at Sifu Paul Vunak and Contemporary Jeet Kune Do. The examples he uses are almost all referring to either Paul and or his organization. So yes there was more to the article than meets the eye.

    And as for you Chris if you are reading this I would really like to know what you were thinking. There is a war brewing and it’s all pointing straight at you. We didn’t start this fight but you can beat your ass we will finish it. Of all people, of all the thousands of martial artist out there you call out Paul Vunak…. Not sure you thought this one through. We be seeing you
     
  12. Okami Bujin

    Okami Bujin New Member

    My name is Jay Balajadia and I am one of Paul Vunak's Descendants Of The Masters Instructors at Progressive Fighting Systems. I have trained with different Sifus and and Instructors of Jeet Kune Do and have had the honor and priveledge to meet two of Bruce Lee's students. Each of them came from varied experiences in their journey. Each of them had different approaches to teaching Lee's art. Neither of them was any "truer" than the other. All of them greatly enriched me and my progress in martial arts and in life. It is by their examples that echo one of the core principles of Jeet Kune Do:

    "Knowledge in martial arts actually means self-knowledge. A martial artist has to take responsibility for himself and accept the consequences of his own doing. The understanding of JKD is through personal feeling from movement to movement in the mirror of the relationship and not through a process of isolation. To be is to be related. To isolate is death. To me, ultimately, martial arts means honestly expressing yourself. Now, it is very difficult to do. It has always been very easy for me to put on a show and be cocky, and be flooded with a cocky feeling and feel pretty cool and all that. I can make all kinds of phoney things. Blinded by it. Or I can show some really fancy movement. But to experience oneself honestly, not lying to oneself, and to express myself honestly, now that is very hard to do." - Bruce Lee

    Sadly, I am witnessing a stage in JKD's development where this is being forgotten. It pains me when a BROTHER in JKD DISRESPECTS another Brother, who had put in the blood, sweat, tears, pain, defeat, personal demons, and opened up his heart to give back to the world. And what for? Because his subjective expression of JKD is more "valid"?!!!
    Pathetic. Callous. Inhuman. Dishonorable. You should be ashamed of yourself, Chris Kent. You owe your Brother, Paul Vunak, an apology. You owe the Jeet Kune Do Community an apology. FIX THIS, IN THE NAME OF THE FUTURE OF JEET KUNE DO AND ALL OF ITS EXPRESSIONS THROUGH ANY OF THE VALID LINEAGES THAT SPRING FROM SIJO BRUCE LEE!!!

    "... I mean I don't want to be like 'As Confucius say,' but under the sky, under the heavens there is but one family. It just so happens that people are different.” -Bruce Lee

    FIX WHAT YOU BROKE, CHRIS!!!
     
  13. chrismoran

    chrismoran New Member

    To Chris Kent.

    Well I just went through your article. This article has two goals, one to reiterate information regarding Jeet Kune Do and the other is a

    indirect attempt to discredit the work of sifu Paul Vunak and PFS.

    My question is why do it? What is your true intent? Why the passive aggressive approach?
    Why not just be direct about it and mention his name going right to the heart of the matter?

    You wrote the following:

    "The root of Jeet Kune Do was Bruce Lee himself."

    "Finally, you will understand that Jeet Kune Do is about you, the individual. It is about you cultivating your own body as a martial

    instrument and then expressing that instrument with the highest degree of efficiency and effectiveness and with total freedom."

    When I was going through your article there was merit in these particular statements listed above, which I really enjoyed. The rest of

    article seemed like a blatant attack on pfs as you cited statements from articles recently written on Black Belt magazine.

    Before this article I would have looked to you as a "Senior" in JKD and I would have gladly asked questions to learn more about Jeet Kune

    Do from you. After reading this article I have to question your thinking and judgement.

    It seems your sole purpose of this article is to discredit the work of others who have done nothing but promote jeet kune do in a

    positive way by coining a term "contemporary jkd". This is no different then how you have your name "prefixed" in front of your home page

    "Chris Kent JKD". How are you any different?

    What could have been a positive article on how Jeet Kune Do is going through different era's as you cited Bruce Lee was doing himself

    while developing JKD. The article left a negative impression on your way of thinking.

    It would have been great to read an article on the different benefits of training methods from "original material" and what we have today

    "jkd concepts".

    Mixed martial arts was also cited here as not being JKD. How about you put an article on how people interested in mixed martial arts

    would benefit in having a foundation in JKD as oppose to just secluding JKD as being different.

    At the end of the day we are just martial artists looking to learn and grow in their own way. To me JKD is a great medium to do this for

    anyone interested in the combative arts, bruce lee, self defense and mma.

    Your article titled "true nature of jkd" lost focus and could have been beneficial to many but felt short with its hidden agenda.

    As a martial artist first and foremost I heard good things about you so reading this was disappointing.
     
  14. SSNE

    SSNE New Member

    Chris Kent
    You, as a person who has trained in JKD for many years, seem to be missing many important concepts in your Jeet Kune Do article. Yes JKD practitioners get to express themselves; this is true, but if you throw two people at each other “expressing themselves” without a base or a style to draw from, then you have two poorly evolved people in martial art and JKD. Through learning the styles, methods, concepts, and the grind of training a student then begins to lose his sense of style and can be free to express themselves. When a student achieves that growth they truly learn what it means to "Absorb what is useful, reject what is useless and add what is specifically your own"
    In Bruce’s quote “Running water never grows stale. So you just have to keep on flowing” he is literally telling you to constantly grow and never stay stagnant. Things are always growing, always evolving. Just as Bruce found the ways to improve his way of fighting, teaching, and overall growth, we as Jeet Kune Do practitioners need to continually grow. We constantly strive for fresh and new ways to improve and add to our art. Just as Bruce Lee intended. To say to not do that is to go against Bruce Lee’s teachings.
    Mr Kent, as a Jeet Kune Do practitioner for some 30+ years it is sad to see that you have obviously missed the mark. You may want to consider your motives when bashing others in the JKD community. Look inside yourself and see what is driving you to hold people back from their personal liberation.

    Nick
     
  15. Infrazael

    Infrazael Banned Banned

    is this the kung fu forum?
     
  16. Black Tyger

    Black Tyger New Member

    Be Prepared

    In the time that I have known Sifu Vunak I have learned so much about JKD and what it means to each and everyone of us. I have never had an instructor that cared about up lifting JKD, Bruce Lee and Guro Dan Inosanto. Its a shame how one bad apple tries to spoil the bunch. But remember that for every action, has a reaction..... Just something to think about.
     
  17. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Double post.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2011
  18. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Ooh look a post under the title be prepared. You have all sent these rants to Chris Kent I assume?
    Strange how we have had so many new members, all PFS guys.
     
  19. Polar Bear

    Polar Bear Moved on

    Heh heh, this has become the most Kandy Pants thread ever!!!!
    Leave JKD alone!!!!

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHmvkRoEowc"]‪LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE!‬‏ - YouTube[/ame]


    The Bear.
     
  20. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    ...Yeah, and I can't help but notice that Michael Wright is the only PFS member here (other than Hannibal who has apparently seen sense, at last) who has emphatically discouraged a violent response.

    I think any impartial observers (of which, I am one) to this little drama would find that if anyone has acted badly in this little drama, it is Thomas Cruse and the PFS thugs in this thread who have threatened violence (either explicitly or through innuendo and allusion) against Chris Kent.

    This thread isn't about Paul Vunak and his knowledge of martial arts and self defence, which I doubt anyone would contest, is immense. It is about the people under his charge believing that an appropriate response to a blog post is violence. I doubt that he teaches that in any of his seminars.

    If Paul Vunak is ****ed at Chris Kent, I daresay he can handle it himself.
     

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