A conversation about Systema.

Discussion in 'Other Styles' started by Combat Sports, Nov 24, 2012.

  1. Combat Sports

    Combat Sports Formerly What Works

    I was curious about what people's experiences or views on the Russian martial art Systema?
  2. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    From what I have seen it is a lot of fluff and hype and very little substance. There is a lot of absolute hokum attached to it and despite claims of "über deadly" they have rarely shown or demonstrated anything not seen or done better elsewhere.

    I know several high ranking Russian MA players and one described it as "bollocks"

    I have seen a few demos where systems looks passable, but they never seem to fare too well in cross-discipline encounters. Ordinarily this would be no big thing, but when the claims are outlandish (and they are) you need something special to back it up - and they don't have it.

    Not entirely without merit, but much better arts are available. I personally would avoid it.
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2012
  3. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Views, not experience:

    Interesting concepts and scope for personal interpretation & creativity.
    Some things you rarely see in MA; like using multiple opponents' strikes against each other and flowing strikes between opponents.
    Looks like good body conditioning and breath work.
    I find people like Vladimir Vasiliev and Martin Wheeler entertaining to watch in action.
    Better knife- throwing than I've seen in most arts.

    Spec Ops marketing
    Flashy and impractical (for impracticable read: dangerous) demos in vids, especially when it comes to knife defence ie. flicking knives out of hands with the feet from standing etc.
    Other dodgy demo stuff like the way I often see front kicks performed in a way that would leave someone over-extended and prone to falling over even the defender did nothing. It's easy to look good if people are handing themselves to you in that fashion.

    Still, it does intrigue me enough to consider a workshop next time they do one in my town.
  4. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I don't really follow these things, but didn't they fare ok at some Bullshido throwdowns or something?
  5. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    There's some nice ukemi training, both falling and receiving strikes, there is also some interesting and varied exercises and some of the striking can be fun.

    There's a lot of scenario training done covering everything from situational work to awareness drills.

    I think a lot of it serves better as auxiliary training rather than a stand alone, certainly it's better for someone already grounded in another system, IMO.

    One big problem for me though is that as good as the ukemi is it can drill compliance into the techniques, we've all seen the clips of people falling over part of that is due to learning how to fall, IIRC. Without there being a clear distinction between the various aspects of the training there runs a risk of churning out training partners whose automatic response to contact is to become a wet lettuce.
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2012
  6. Combat Sports

    Combat Sports Formerly What Works

    That would be interesting to see.
  7. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I believe there's vids on YouTube, I don't have time right now, but if no-one else does I'll post some later.
  8. Considered

    Considered New Member

  9. mattt

    mattt Valued Member

    Exactly why I decided to be a ninjer instead of a ruski. That, and the quality control.
  10. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Kevin secours is the only systema 2nd gen instructor who looks competant, and even hes left them now.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boo_a-_7XPU"]round kick defense - YouTube[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkWSA18d-zE"]COMBAT SYSTEMA--Clinch DVD - YouTube[/ame]
  11. jorvik

    jorvik Valued Member

    Hasn't Scott Sonnon done systema? and he won a few competitions
  12. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    And sambo, And hes won some sambo comps.

    Actually I quite like his rmax flowfit stuff, good movement drills.
  13. JKDbyNik

    JKDbyNik Valued Member

    Over the past 6 months I've been hanging with a couple guys who teach Systema. We've exchanged some information. I can't say it's my favorite thing, but I will say that it has some real merit. They have excellent conditioning mentally as well as physically. Some of the stuff they've shown me looked extremely silly, but worked extremely well!

    I was also surprised to learn that Systema is actually a healing art, and because of their knowledge on healing the body, they've learned on how to hurt it as well. So they strike in unorthodox manner and targets, but do a lot of damage. They also do a great job of forcing you to train full body relaxation, breathing, and counter striking.

    That's my .02
  14. RobP

    RobP Valued Member

    Works fine for me and our guys and we did ok at a UK throwdown a few years back. A lot of our guys are also active in security / LEO type work so have ample opportunity for real life testing. Some of it may not look like "regualr" martial arts training, but I don't regard it as regualr martial arts (previous 20+ years experience in other styles)

    Link removed.

    Sorry Rob, but we don't allow pimping of anyones you tube channel unless it is to show a specific technique in answer to a question.
    You can add a link as part of a signature.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 25, 2012
  15. Kaigun

    Kaigun New Member

    extremely negative. Stay away. The instructors I encountered are brainwashed fanatics, and cultist conspiracy mongers.
  16. Kaigun

    Kaigun New Member

    I really do not consider Systema to be a healing art at all, many of the instructors are anti-vaxx, and anti-medicine. Their minds are broken so I really wouldn't trust anything they have to say since they are anti-science regressives.
    Dead_pool likes this.

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