The five elements are the metal (Jing), wood (Mu), water (Shui), fire (Huo) and the earth (Tu). They are used to categorize directions of steps in Tai Chi. They are used to categorize palm methods in Ba Gua Zhang and fist methods in Xing Yi Quan. Here is a link: 5 elements or Wu Xing in Ba Gua Zhang Do you use the system in your school of MA? Comments?
The 5 elements have complimenting and antagonistic actions. One gives the birth to another. One overcomes another. In CMA, it is widely used to place MA moves and techniques in a similar fashion.
Watch ya Yea we understand the five elements, but it's a bit more indepth than you suggest. Maybe you should look into 'Katori Shinto Ryu' and 'Bujinkan'. There has been so much written on this subject, try and source some information. Maybe try and find a teacher who will help you. (Not necessaryly a Martial arts Instructor). Chinese medician is also a good source of information. All the best in your quest [confused]
Each has two it destroys and two it overcomes. Metal (forward) for example defeats Earth (center) and Wood (Backwards) but is defeated by either fire (right) or water (left) One does give birth to another. There is a cycle of creation and destruction. That's why the yin yang symbol should be going clockwise, as this is a cylce of creation. The ones going clockwise are actually following the cycle of destruction.
There is a Generating sequence, Controlling sequence, overacting sequence and insulting sequence. If you search around you will find a few other theories aswell.
in wing chun this can be used with pressure point strikes (aka dim mak). however, i read only a little in william cheungs "how to develop chi power" which is a random yet helpful and short introduction to wing chun, chi, pressure points and some other interesting stuff. it does describe the 5 elements (which i know from chinese history). the importance with the elements is what organs the element is attached to. these organs can be striked (usually at the pressure points) to cause some type of desired effect. on the flip side, it also is used for healing knowing the elements and their organs can help diagnose what pressurepoints to apply accupresure to and even what to eat or use as medicines. lastly this gets further complex (dim mak) in wing chun because each organ or elements are weaker or vulnerable in certain periods of the day. so if you really wanted to master this you'd have to know the pressure points, the elements and organs, and when to strike them! ahh http://www.wingchunkwoon.com/accu.asp#five
Bagua does not use 5 palms changes, that I am aware of. Most forms of bagua are built around 8 palm changes. Bagua even means "Eight Trigram Palm". The Chinese have an interesting way of looking at the Universe, and you can find examples of the sort of cycles you refer to with lots of numbers, not just 5. Really, there is so much literature available on the net about each of the 5 fists/elements, what they are affiliated with, etc, that its hardly worth reiterating it all here. Check Empty Flower for a good intro to the subject. When you learn linking form in xing yi, you start to see what they are doing with the 5 elements, but enough good info has already been said on all that.
PlumDragon. There are 5 elements on top of Ba Gua. Metal (internal & external), wood (i and e), earth (i and e), water and fire. Here is a link to the chart. Wu Xing Ba Gua and animal forms There are meridians and organs for TCM and dim mak peeps. Have fun.
5 elements, not really; the 5 youve heard of before are used, but expanded upon with things like heaven and thunder, configured to correspond to 8 variations. The fact that they use a superset of the 5 elements isnt really relevant. Bagua works on 8 palm changes, 8 body regions (not necessarily organs, since there are actually 12 organs, 6 yin, 6 yang), 8 anmials, 8 methods...and even ideally 8 steps around the circle! Bagua is all about 8, and that diagram you linked to only helps show my point. Meridians and dim mak? please... That diagram has very little to do with meridian theory and even less to do with your secret dim mak moves.
Yes. You are correct that it is expanding the 5 to fit the eight. You are correct that everything is considered in the number of 8. And yet everything starts with Wu Ji and then change of Yin and Yang. The Yin hand and Yang hands, the front and the back of the hand, the front and the back of the spine, the inword and outward etc. The diagram is only a reference of time, and organs for people that are interested in these info such as the people who are interested in timing their meridian and pressure point. And yes, you are correct that the number of Yin and Yang organs are 6 and 6.
OK - glib replies aside, maybe you can explain what you meant by this MOTW? And in general - I'm curious - does 5 element theory have any relevance to the martial practise of Taiji? For example - does 5 element theory provide insights into tactics?
Hi Pete e the 5 phases or element sequences are basic ones used in TCM but they are hit and miss and not an exact science. In fact a good few TCM practitioners do not use them or use them to back up a diagnosis they have come up with using basic techniques such as pulse, looking and asking questions. As for using it in tatics if you have done any Xing yi or Ba Gua with Nigel you will find alot of movements are named after elements. I personally feel that trying to fight around these elements just make things complicated. If you are thinking tactics you are not doing Tai Chi you just do what you need to do at that time and place. Going back to the sequences i mentioned many basic TCM books will explain them well if you want any recommended books let me know. Hope the club is going well.
Thanks Moon - that's about what I thought in terms of the martial arts perspective - but it's always worth asking the question and hearing other people's views. (And the class is going well thanks - 18 students in my 1st class. How many return for a 2nd attempt remains to be seen...)
Taiji concerns itself more with the number 2, primarily though differentiating the world into yin and yang.
The number 2? Could you explain that one? I have heard of three, symbolising Heaven, Earth and Man, or even the three treasures, Shen, Qi and Jin.
1>2>3>5>8>13 I would say taiji does concern itself with these numbers, which are incidently the first six numbers of the fibonacci number series. Google fibonacci to see its significance. Taiji (supreme ultimate) though is not about a number per se (though they are important as to what they represent in practice) eg. 1(void) or 2(ying/yang) etc to the 10,000 things. It is concerned with the > (transforming)
The '2' would be yin/yang which is manifest from wuji(void) through the supreme ultimate this changes to 3 which as well as what you have written can also be viewed as mind, body, spirit. 5 is represented as the five elements and also the 5 steps. Then you have the 8 directions. which all combine to give us 13 postures. There is no point going further as this is all you need to discover the 10,000 things.
