Hi everyone! I've been out of KSW for a while due to schedule conflicts and the sort, but 2 of my kids are still actively taking class. I got a call from one of the adult students tonight and he told me something I find disturbing if he has his facts straight: He said that there is a new policy in effect for getting your BB testing complete. Basically you test once a quarter, and you must have 8 successful tests before you can actually pass and wear the black belt. I don't have a real big problem with that (I mean I do but I could live with it). Here's the kicker - the testing is to be observed by a member of the KSW association from headquarters in Houston. So we are expected, to get our blackbelt, to travel across the country to the different tournaments throughout the year to get our testing observed. If it is not observed by one of them, it doesn't count. So I could travel to St. Louis for nothing if they don't make it. I plan on calling Sa Bum Nim and asking him for the straight answer with the facts, but even if half of this is true then I find it hard for me to decide to get back into official training if it's going to cost me 2000 dollars a year just in travelling expenses to test. I know it has been discussed in detail on here about the money issue of KSW, but more and more it seems like the corporation I work for... all about the money. I mean no disrespect to anyone at all, I just think that if the association is going in this direction then they better plan on a lot of people not getting their black belts. Justin
Yes, Dan Bo Nims go up through eight black stripes. No clue about other places but at my dojang, Master Lee does his own testing for Dan Bo Nims, Jo Kyo Nims, and Kyo Sa Nims. Pu Sa Bum Nims and up deal with the WKSA directly I believe. That's probably a bit different from other schools though, as Master Lee is a 9th degree. I'd be pretty surprised if you had to deal with the WKSA just for Dan Bo Nim stripe testing though, regardless.
I don't see the whole testing in Houston for every BB test happening. They would lose WAY to many people. (most likely myself included as I couldn't afford to travel that much when I'm up for promotion again),
I don't think this one is too likely. From what I've seen, they seem to try and have at least one senior rank on hand for all the tournaments. When I was up in Indiana, PSBN Phillips commented that they had just had black belt testing in their area that day. I gather that someone came to visit periodically, to allow regional testing at other times besides tournament.
justinksw your feelings are common and understandable. There is absolutely no reason why a school owner shouldn't be able administer bb tests and award black belts. If wksa doesn't think they should do this, then they should not permit them to have a school. one of the pre-requisets for owning a school should be that the owner is actually competent to train AND PROMOTE someone up to at least the black belt level. But, you see, by withholding this "control ", the WKSA can let literally any BB open a school, (which , in turn increases the potential for many more schools). This is a fundamental problem that has exsisted for a while. You will probably find out from whoever your SBN is that your first and last test must be "observed" and all of the "middle" exams can be administered by him/her, or something like that. This is all just the wksa's way of maintaining "Quality Control". the jury is still out on whether the emphasis is on the quality , or the control. I think you should you should express your post to your SBN and, if needed, WKSA. If everyone would do this when they feel this way, maybe some one might listen. As it is now, everyone just accepts it, as if it is bad manners to be honest if you disagree.
You hit the nail on the head there! So many people in our dojang just roll over and take whatever is dealt out. I am looked at like I have a 3rd eye popping out of my head when I ask questions. It's hard for me to sit back and take abuse when I'm paying money for it... I believe I am the customer here. I mean don't get me wrong, I understand the whole respect thing very well. I do not, however, understand how one can be expected to just blindly follow instructions with no questioning attitude - that's just not smart in my book.
I can't say that I've experienced the abuse thing at my school, but I do know what you mean by the asking questions issue. Maybe it's becauseI try too much to understand what's going on.
Agreed. That's why (IMHO) that is not the direction they are going. But it's just my opinion....& you know what they say about opinions... GOOD LUCK!!! Hang in there~ ^----< Equus
The process usually requires 7-12 tests but this depends to some extent on the students performance. the entire cost is $350. None of the tests are supposed to occur until the entire fee is paid since the # of tests can be different for each student.
People, most of you do not remember the old days when it took 4-7 years to make blackbelt. You should count yourself lucky to able to test 8-10 times, as master harmon always says "You learn something new at every testing, either about yourself or your training/knowledge of Kuksool" The reason why we make Dbn's and all other blackbelts test in front of other senior belts is to retain quality control. I remember when i was testing, or even better when my Mom was testing for her blackbelt( back in 89), nothing was standardized. There was also rampent coruption, people just buying thier blackbelt from their individual school owner( founder of Mul sool won was one of these people doing this) So if you would rather have this than what you have now, just do what all the other complainers did and quit and declare yourself grandmaster. Also the only fee to test is what the association charges you for your BB, the other is upto your school owner, if you have a problem with that, find a school who doesnt charge 10-20 dollars for test.
I'm sorry but we don't see eye to eye here. I would not consider myself 'lucky' to test 8-10 times. I should not be given the opportunity to test until I am ready to test. I think it's crazy to have a standard 8-10 'tries' to get your blackbelt. Don't send anyone to test until they know everything required to pass the test. They should then be judged on all of the requirements and their performance of such. If their performance is sub-par, then they get another shot on a later date. The fee is just outrageous. I live in a very small town and consider myself lucky to have the one martial arts school we do have (which just happens to be KSW). I know of no other martial art that charges the exhorbitant fees that KSW does. There is absolutely no reason to charge as much as they do (granted this is just my humble opinion). For example: It costs me $65 to buy an 'official' KSW uniform from our dojang for my 7 year old son. I can buy the exact same thing from a martial arts supply store for about $25. Seminar would have cost me over $200 for myself and my 2 kids to go. Throw in a black belt test and 3 days of KSW just cost me well over $550! Having the money is not the issue here, it's spending the money. If I didn't enjoy the martial art as much as I do then I would have been out a long time ago. This does not make it right in my book though. I have skipped seminar for 4 years straight because I refuse to pay an enormous sum of money to get a glimpse of Kuk Sa Nim. Alright, I think I'm done ranting for now... bottom line - if I could find a school near me that didn't charge the crazy fees, I would be there in a heartbeat. I don't have that option so I continue to grit my teeth and pay the tuition, hoping blackbelt fees make a turn for the better come July 2007.
Can't you just buy a plain black uniform and badges from the WKSA and use that? Our whole class is kitted out that way.
If I were you I'd start looking at the non KSW MAs in your area, taking a trip to view each class. It may turn out to be more financially sound in the long run to travel a longer distance per class and pay less fees overall for those classes and gradings to gain an equally credible martial arts qualification. Instructors who aren't total swindlers should not mind kids coming to class in a different coloured uniform and just buying the club colour one when they grow out of the old. There are some aspects of whast you have brought up here that sound like quality control, but also quality control gone mad with a huge element of financial exploitation. Your association should appoint panels of club instructors to moderate gradings travelling locally within their area to each others clubs rather than force you all to go elsewhere.
That's good. That's the system I use in England as well, though I actually go a stage further. I occasionally sit on Shotokan grading panels as a Dan grade assessor even though I no longer practise Shotokan and I often have instructors from styles outside my own come and give their opinions at gradings I run. The crucial thing is that though one thing is an apple and another a pear, you can still tell how good each one is so long a syou understand the framework it is in.
As far as I understand it, it's not really eight "tries" for your black belt so much as it is that testing for your black belt is divided into eight sections. I think I'd be a lot more comfortable with testing every three months in sections like that, than waiting two years or so. As has already been pointed out, you can buy a black uniform and the patch set then sew the patches on yourself. I'm fine with the $70 (in my size) for a uniform, where I don't have to worry about sewing. I can understand how it would seem exorbidant in a child's size though, since the pricing doesn't change much with size. I don't remember seminar costing that much. I can't remember exactly how much it was, but I seem to recall that it wasn't much more than the DVD we got would theoretically cost. Yeah... it wasn't an enormous sum of money at all. And I personally had a lot of fun at it, training with visiting Master Harmon and other people. Not just because Kuk Sa Nim was giving a talk there, though that was nice too. It sounds like you'd be too bitter about things to possibly enjoy it though, anyway.
