101 reasons mma sucks

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Cosmo Kramer, Sep 3, 2006.

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  1. Beltless

    Beltless Banned Banned

    You stand on the ground that you've had a good few hug-of-wars in the ring and got some wannabee strikers to submit. Big deal. MMA is great for endurance, building confidence in fighting, and refining your repetoire of tools as you learn with each fight. I know that. I've been there and still fight full contact. My argument wasn't meant to be that today's MMA and sports fighters don't stand a chance outside the ring, but that JKD isn't supposed to be taken as MMA with a bit of icing on top with it's philosophy. True JKD deals with self-defence exclusively. Ring bouts are merely a form of conditioning we use to that end. But the JKD used in self defence can be barely recognisable to the JKD one would incorporate in the ring. In fact it's not really JKD, but MMA with a different label, as I said it is completely watered down to suit the ring. When someone says they use JKD in the ring, 1st they're ignorant for such a remark, secondly you can guarantee what they do will resemble the methods seen in all other MMA. Because today's MMA focusing on BJJ, boxing, and MT primarily has ring fighting down to a 'T' allready. The difference is MMA fighters will have to use ring techniques in the street as well, largely having to improvise the rest of it depending on the situation. JKD and the routes it takes in understanding and learning martial arts is more efficient to MMA in that sense. It's much more direct in it's approach to self defence.
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2006
  2. Cloud9

    Cloud9 Valued Member

    Exactly. Noone is saying that there's no value in MMA. Heck, I train in MMA, if I thought there wasn't any value, I certainly wouldn't waste my time. ;)

    But does it come "close" to street fighting? Heck no. Lets see just a few of the differences.

    1. Those guys aren't wearing street clothes, shoes, coats, etc.
    2. They know who they're fighting before the fight.
    3. They know the other fighter is limited by a set of rules
    4. They know there will only be 1 other fighter, and they don't have to be aware of the crowd for others to jump into or stab them, or hit them with a brick, bat, club, etc.
    5. The fighters are in the same weight class
    6. They know there are no weapons
    7. They know they can quit at any time.
    8. They know there are rounds
    9. They know they won't get shot by anyone in the crowd
    10. They know the history and background of the other fighter
    11. They know they'll be able to see their opponent in good lighting
    12. They get to stretch, warm up, etc.
    13. They don't start a match by getting sucker punched.
    14. They know they'll have space and are not faced with fighting in a moving bus, train, or close quarters bar or nightclub packed with people where anyone in the crowd can do a quick stab and simply walk away.
    15. They're fighting on level ground. Not always an option in a street fight.

    I'll stop here... I can spend all day typing up differences, but I've alluded to many in earlier posts referring to environmentals ie. temperature, rain, ice, snow, among other things.
  3. Wolf

    Wolf Totalitarian Dictator

    What is self-defense training to you?!
  4. Saz

    Saz Nerd Admin

    I agree.. let me help.

    Neb/Beltless, consider yourself banned cupcake.
  5. Cloud9

    Cloud9 Valued Member

    MM, perhaps you're not saying that, but there have been comments along the way by some that allude or imply that it's the case. That if you're an MMA sportman, that they would necessarily do well in a street fight.

    Not sure I agree with this. The rules were put in place as a result of objections by masses. As you know, the early UFCs were just fine without all 30+ rules it has today.

    Some limited rules may be good for training, but the less rules, the better. If you're always training in an environment with a high degree of rules, you won't suddenly be doing something very different from that in a street fight just because there are no rules.

    For example, I don't know anyone that's ever died from getting their hair pulled. That should be fair game just about everywhere. Biting is probably more a health concern than anything serious. Heck, I've been bitten by dogs, and sure, I needed stitches, but again, humans wouldn't have the same bite force, and the situations where you can get a bite are limited (better odds on the ground than standing).

    This is a strawman, and a cop out. Who on this thread can't throw a jab? Who can't hit a moving a opponent with a jab? Come on now, anyone that has sparred for a while can do that.

    How about boxers who have trained for years and in a street fight break their hand because they've never fought bare handed and have never learned how to throw a punch.

    Vinny no neck (that's what we used to call him) loved fighting 'boxers' in the street. Vinny would see the jab coming and use the top of his head, and after a few of those he'd be fighting a one armed opponent. (Not that I recommend using your head in this manner) In spite of the fact that Vinny had never had a single day of MA training of any kind, he would demolish 'trained' guys left and right.
    Who wants to eliminate sparring? On the contrary, you should spar, but preferably changing as many variables as possible. In other words, sometimes spar in your street clothes, in poorly lit environments, in hallways, on sloped streets, in extremely cold (or hot) weather, in the rain, snow, ice, with boots and coats, with bathing suit and nothing else but a groin protector.

    Who here has never been hit in the groin during training anyway? Eye gouging is probably the most difficult to train, but as I've stated earlier, train your fingers first and then use goggles in live sparring. Contrary to popular opinion, the opportunities for eye gouging are best at close range so you don't necessarily have to come at it from a 'jab'. Hair pulling? Come on, why the heck not?

    Small joint manipulation? Come on, standing in a live sparring session it would be very difficult to do, but once you're on the ground there are countless opportunities. I may not advise it for beginners because they may become overzealous and break a finger, but for trained people? Just submit if it's painful, like any other submission.

    Here's one that clearly one would easily do on the street. Not sure why it's not permitted in the UFC. - Holding the ropes or the fence.

    Using abusive language in the ring or fenced area? Come on now? I've never heard of anyone submitting because they've been cursed! LOL
  6. Cloud9

    Cloud9 Valued Member

    I guess he's not the only one missing the point. Thankfully you're not a teacher. :p

    MM, for goodness sakes, please get over the "finger jab"... you can end up with a finger in your eye in all sorts of close in fighting and ground fighting situations.
  7. Cloud9

    Cloud9 Valued Member

    ROFL.... Damn, this thread sure is funny. :D
  8. Cloud9

    Cloud9 Valued Member

    So Ali is a wuss because he only boxed and never stepped into any other kind of ring? Or perhaps you believe that Ali could have beaten everyone in any style.

    I haven't seen anyone lay claim to being the ultimate street fighter. I've only seen comments that say that the UFC does not resemble a street fight.
  9. Cloud9

    Cloud9 Valued Member

    One can ask, "What is MMA?" to 100 practitioners and not get the same answer twice. Sure, they'll probably agree to some things like cross training in other styles, disciplines, but beyond that I'm sure you'd find just as many differences.
  10. Cloud9

    Cloud9 Valued Member

    Those will probably be the same ones who have never been in a real street fight and believe that their MA training appropriately prepares them for such an eventuality.
  11. xen

    xen insanity by design


    six posts in a row?


    ever get the feeling people have stopped listening while they root around the house for a firearm to end their misery?

  12. Cloud9

    Cloud9 Valued Member

    I'm sure there are some neighborhoods where ground and pound and/or some submission technique would be just fine.

    Of the people that I grew up with in NYC, the ones that have died were on the ground in some manner (even if they were winning and pounding away at their opponent).

    IMO (note, it is my opinion, based on personal experience) your odds of survival if you're on the ground in a streetfight in NYC (bad parts of Brooklyn, Bronx, Harlem, etc.) are much, much worse, than if you stay on your feet.
  13. Cloud9

    Cloud9 Valued Member

    Bingo! Come stab me, whack me upside the head with a pistol, baseball bat, stickball bat, bottle, rock, brick, doc martens, and any number of other objects.

    In a street fight, you have to watch your opponent(s) and everyone else around you. Any of those 'innocent' bystanders can be a friend just waiting for an opportunity to jump in or take a quick shot at you.

    That's something that MMA classes could easily incorporate into their teachings, but most don't.
  14. Cloud9

    Cloud9 Valued Member

    Colored chalk here... bummer when you go home and see 20 slash marks on your uniform, and wake up with just as many bruises all over your body. ;)

    That's why rule #1 in a knife fight is... if you ain't got a gun and he has a knife, run like hell (if you can).
  15. Cloud9

    Cloud9 Valued Member

    Unless? :confused:

    Even if you quit your job and did nothing else but train DAILY in defense against multiple attackers with knives, you're going to get stabbed.
  16. Cloud9

    Cloud9 Valued Member

    You probably won't have the time after the takedown, unless the opponents friends are just watching. A throw is about as much time as you'll have before someone else is on you.

    They may say that, but it's clear that BJJ looks to take the fight TO the ground, and while I would say that every MA should have some training in ground fighting, in my experience, the ground (in a streetfight) is an invitation for death or extremely serious life threatening injuries; particularly in many bad/violent neighborhoods. Now if we're just talking kids fighting, or some middle to upper class neighborhoods, that's a different story.
  17. Cloud9

    Cloud9 Valued Member

    How would you know whether your opponent has a knife?
  18. Cloud9

    Cloud9 Valued Member

    Finally, something we can agree on! :D
  19. Cloud9

    Cloud9 Valued Member

    ? Are you guys compiling my MA resume? :D Ground fighting existed long before BJJ came around in case you didn't know....

    I said my current school includes BJJ and JJJ in its MMA training. I just began training again a few months back after a 10yr or so break.
  20. Cloud9

    Cloud9 Valued Member

    ROFL... So that's why everyone runs like hell when the cops come.... :rolleyes:
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