What's the closest in competition to a real fight situation/being attacked

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by tooksomechin_na, Aug 26, 2017.

  1. tooksomechin_na

    tooksomechin_na Valued Member

    How is UFC/MMA for this, vale tudo or some other fully contact martial arts tournaments. I notice, for example that something like Aikido is never used in UFC/MMA.

    Basically, how close can we get to a real situation, what it best for seeing what doesn't work in a real fight/self-defense situation?
     
  2. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Sport competition mirrors real life in that it is real life, whereas pretending to take falls isn't real life, although obviously it only transfers in as much as the situation mirrors real life, unarmed both willing patticipants 1 VS 1, accuratly mirrors the same.

    There are some group VS group mma events in Russia that reflect that situation too, generally 2 VS 1 with skilled opponents means the 1 is going to lose.
     
  3. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    People will tell you that competitive formats and real world violence are poles apart. In my opinion while there are significant differences this concept grossly understates the overlap.

    If you are looking for a sportive environment that replicates the pressure and ferocity of street fight then really you need look no further than MMA.

    While there are many different factors and strategies and mindsets involved in competitive fighting and physical self defence which stem from the contextual difference, if you want to experience what it's like when someone is swinging to knock you out and trying to seriously hurt you then full contact striking competition and MMA competition are the best of the sports formats for that in my opinion - even hard sparring in the gym goes some way.

    Fighting and self defence are not synonymous but for fighting a full contact limited rules environment is king.
     
    VoidKarateka and Dead_pool like this.
  4. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    The real kicker here is the idea of a 'real fight/self defense situation'.

    If you are looking at the idea of a 'fight' that has gone beyond the point of avoiding the situation/walking away/de-escalation/ where you absolutely must engage a determined opponent who wants to hurt you using pretty much all hand-to-hand options (in a one-on-one attack), then in my opinion, MMA covers it.

    For most people, applying 'self defense' will focus on the lower level of the spectrum... so having those skills and awareness will pay off more often (for many people) than the physical skills. The physical skills need to be hones so that they will work if you ever need it. If you were to use MMA as your 'base art' for self defense, I would say it would be a good idea... so long as you augment it with some awareness/avoidance drills/knowledge, some work within the legal levels of force and legal requirements, and add in some drills with multiple opponents, weapons and environments (furniture, curbs, etc).
     
    Knee Rider likes this.
  5. aikiMac

    aikiMac aikido + boxing = very good Moderator Supporter

    Like Thomas is alluding to -- what's the situation that you want to simulate?

    For me aikido is fantastic "self-defense" because the emphasis on blending with the other guy easily translates into all of the front-end conflict resolution. I never have to throw a punch, and more importantly no one ever throws a punch at me, on the big bad str33t because my aikido resolved the conflict very early. :dunno: :shrug: :eek::oops:
     
  6. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Disregarding all other things like self defence and avoiding a fight and all that, the answer is, pretty damp close if you put the effort in.

    For my money it would be either MMA, or Dog Brothers stuff (MMA with sticks). The problem is that everyone is somewhat good at it. So the hardest part is that IRL you'll probably be fighting someone who can't actually fight.
     
    Knee Rider likes this.
  7. EdiSco

    EdiSco Likes his anonymity

    MMA is really a ruleset so there are apparently quality control issues with some MMA gyms. In MY opinion, Muay Thai or Sanda/San Shou are the best Martial Arts to learn for real life streetfight scenario. It's a real shame Sanda is not as popular as Muay Thai as it's such a brilliant Martial Art!
     
  8. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Agreed, I'd probably prefer Sanda if I could take it.
     
    axelb and Knee Rider like this.
  9. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    To be fair there's plenty of poor quality kf pretending to be sanda and kickboxing pretending to be muay Thai around too.

    Although there's certainly an issue with mma gyms too.




     
    Knee Rider likes this.
  10. SCA

    SCA Former Instructor

    A healthy reminder that sometimes gets neglected in these sort of conversations, regularly engaging in full-contact fighting with little or no protection greatly increases the risk of injury to yourself. Something to take into consideration for those who seek beneficial martial arts training.
     
  11. aikiMac

    aikiMac aikido + boxing = very good Moderator Supporter

    And those with dependents (spouse, children), and those with desk jobs that depend upon brain rather than brawn. Yep.
     
  12. Rataca100

    Rataca100 Banned Banned

    To just aska question here, isnt Sanda modernised/sporterized/revised Kung fu?

    Edit: For above i know that feeling i keep hurting my elbow using a heavy bag recently. I belive i may keep over extending. (is there a post about this? Hurting your elbows/arms doing heavy bag training?)
     
  13. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    The bag is either too hard or your technique is flawed

    Try and hit it softer and focus on form...the function will follow soon enough. As one of my teachers often says "less is more"
     
  14. Rataca100

    Rataca100 Banned Banned

    Fair do's, i am hitting the bit which hasnt been beaten in as much and it is my strong arm and i usually end up jsut doing a few strong hits with that arm in sucession.
     
  15. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Don't just hit the bag.

    I see this a lot in gyms where a bag is hung. meatheads hitting it as hard as they can thinking it's impressive. It isn't.

    The bag is a tool like any other and should be treated like a live opponent. Distancing, timing, angles and so on.

    As Hannibal alluded to, technique is king.
     
    axelb likes this.
  16. Rataca100

    Rataca100 Banned Banned

    Its not that impressive if i kick it once it swings quite a bit. I have a ghetto set up where its chained to a swing frame. I am also far from a meathead, i have the binges on protein look but not the muscle mass. :p

    I did kind of try foot work from that other thread. it was literally about a hour ago i did it so i was being slow and just using it to relax and to exercise a little. I have no little or no technique especially for bags, i dont know if a punch should go through it or stop on contact. But definitely noted to stop hitting the bit i have not beaten in with my fists that hard again.

    [edit]: Its a everlast bag, dont know the type or what ever but it was brought from argos a while ago as part of a set and its just hung outside and has a plastic sheet over it. Figure i should hint the type. Its black and red i belive.
     
  17. axelb

    axelb Master of Office Chair Fu

    I'm surprised that you don't effectively have that in your MMA classes? the few MMA clubs I went to we would often spar with a similar ruleset, kickboxing and reset at takedown.
    I've been to kickboxing gyms that drill the same takedowns we used in sanda, but never sparred with allowing takedown.
     
    Pretty In Pink likes this.
  18. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Yeah we do that rule set often, although not quite sands, because we can shoot for single's and doubles.

    Plus it's not exclusively the rule set. Sanda has a lot of takedown I've never repped out or entries I haven't practiced. I'd need a year of it to get competent.
     
    axelb likes this.
  19. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Every competition, sparring format or drill in martial arts is a compromise on reality in some way. Protection equipment, environment (flooring, lighting, obstacles, etc), restricted targets, restricted techniques, no contextual build up, different emotional content, no weapons, no multiples, no drink and drugs, artificial range, time limits, no dialogue, skilled/unskilled, what does skilled in a street fight even mean?, attack rituals, no protection of others, etc etc.

    I think something we've established on MAP as some sort of "truth" in martial arts is that if "real" effectiveness is your goal then you will have to triangulate it from multiple angles. No one approach, drill or format will replicate reality fully, therefore you need to be aware of the compromises you are making and introduce different drills and formats that address those compromises (which in turn will have their own compromises which will need addressing). You can make training "more" or "less" realistic but never "real".

    The MMA format using teams and multiple attackers mentioned above comes pretty close to what real fights can be like but then real fights can also look nothing like that too.
     
    aaradia and axelb like this.
  20. axelb

    axelb Master of Office Chair Fu

    The only part of Sanda I found missing in MMA was takedown against a kick, and the sheer amount of side kick based drills we did, which focus around getting them out the leitai.
    I found as a result of that I go to catch and throw when I'm kicked instead of dodge then throw, which can be hard to unlearn when doing Kickboxing ruleset that doesn't allow clinch.
     

Share This Page