Videos of Steven Seagal teaching Aikidō in Russia

Discussion in 'Aikido' started by Big Will, Apr 17, 2013.

  1. Count Duckula

    Count Duckula Valued Member

    Earned, yes.

    But I'm pretty sure that with a modicum of effort and the loss of a couple hundred dollars, I have a 7th degree black belt in a couple of minutes, certified by the black dragon fighting society.

    A rank itself doesn't mean anything without how it came to be. And the more someone makes a big fuss about it, the less it generally means.
     
  2. OwlMAtt

    OwlMAtt Armed and Scrupulous

    I do respect Steven Seagal as a master of aikido, which he legitimately is. But respecting someone's skill and knowledge does not necessarily entail approval of or agreement with everything he does and says.

    So yes, Seagal is a master, and I respect that. But he's also an egotistical douchebag whose best aikido is 30 years behind him, and I do not let my respect for his skills blind me to that.
     
  3. cuongnhugirl

    cuongnhugirl Banned Banned

    Many actors are egotistical. I don't know what he was like before Hollywood came calling. I respect him as a master but I don't think much of his acting ability.
     
  4. aikiwolfie

    aikiwolfie ... Supporter

    To all those people who respect Steven Seagal as a "master". Have you actually trained with him?

    I only ask because in my time here on MAP I've seen entire organisations labelled McDojo based on the state of their website or the price of the classes. But this guy gets your praise just because ... ?
     
  5. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    His Aikido rank is legit isn't it?

    If so then he is a Shihan.
     
  6. cuongnhugirl

    cuongnhugirl Banned Banned

    No i haven't trained with him, but Anderson Silva has along with other pro MMA fighters. He may be a terrible actor but when it comes to martial arts he knows his stuff.
     
  7. aikiwolfie

    aikiwolfie ... Supporter

    Have you trained with Anderson Silva or any other MMA fighter who has trained with Seagal?
     
  8. aikiwolfie

    aikiwolfie ... Supporter

    I refer you to my earlier point.
     
  9. aikiMac

    aikiMac aikido + boxing = very good Moderator Supporter

    Not with him, but with his bb students in Culver City. At another dojo, I myself was pretty good. On the mat with them, though -- wow, I totally suck. They're good. Really, really good.

    If that's any reflection on Seagal, well, then, he must have been good. But no, I've never met Seagal myself.
     
  10. LemonSloth

    LemonSloth Laugh and grow fat!

    A lot of that depends on what you consider legit, really.

    From personal experience, the two don't necessarily correlate.

    At best, that only means he used to be good, not necessarily that he currently is. If he's still teaching his classes the vast majority of the time/full time then fair play to him. But if it's the students who have attained higher grades who are teaching, then really it is a result of their current training. Certainly in his more recent videos he simply isn't performing the techniques as well as he used to.

    To be fair, the students of his dojo have earned themselves a decent reputation for the intensity and pressure testing they practice under, credit where credit is due.

    There's another question - if someone previously attained a higher grade but then is rarely practising, do they still deserve to be referred to by the grade they obtained when they used to train consistently? As OwlMAtt pointed out, his best Aikido is many years behind him.
     
  11. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    Who awarded it him? Is what I'm getting at.

    I see aikiwolfie's point but, to my understanding, he was awarded from about as an official source as you can get and so with it he is a Shihan.
     
  12. aikiwolfie

    aikiwolfie ... Supporter

    Well in that case the Aikido grading structure originally only went to 8th dan so far as I know. Yet O Sensei awarded Koichi Tohei 10th dan. Supposedly he was to be the only 10th dan. But then other Aikido teachers apparently started claiming the same grade.

    It all depends on who you're willing to believe and how you sit with the politics.
     
  13. aikiMac

    aikiMac aikido + boxing = very good Moderator Supporter

    Quite. He's Aikikai, the international headquarters of the lineage of the founder's blood line. It goes founder (O'Sensei, M. Ueshiba) to his son to his son. The grandson of O'Sensei is the headmaster, and Seagal, arrogant though he otherwise is, publicly speaks very respectfully of the Aikikai.

    There's a rumor that Seagal's 6th and 7th dan ranks were awarded by the Aikikai only because he donated a lot of money to the organization. Even if that is true, that leaves him at 5th dan. Even if we doubt that rank, that leaves him at 4th dan, and as far as I've seen, 4th dan is the last rank with a substantive test of skill. I don't know of any organization that formally tests a candidate for 5th dan, though there might be one. Instead, that rank, and all subsequent ranks, as far as I've seen, are given for continued time in service (e.g., you continued teaching at a school for N years more, and you've been promoting your own students up the ranks).

    The short of it is that Seagal earned from a completely legitimate source what in aikido circles is a rank denoting very high skill.
     
  14. Aikidojomofo

    Aikidojomofo Valued Member

    Formal tests for 5th Dan are the norm in Yoshinkan. It's also not totally uncommon to have tests for 6th Dan, but a lot are just sent through the post.
     
  15. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

  16. gapjumper

    gapjumper Intentionally left blank

    Some very interesting articles there.

    That one on Orei, and this one on damasare should be required reading for certain people posting in some forums on here, who really struggle when trying to understand important cultural aspects of "traditional" arts! :)


    http://classicbudoka.wordpress.com/2013/02/22/84-damasare-hidden-in-plain-sight/
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2013
  17. OwlMAtt

    OwlMAtt Armed and Scrupulous

    That's interesting. Testing for 5th or 6th dan must be a complicated process logistically. There can't be that many people in the world with the authority to give that test.
     
  18. Aikidojomofo

    Aikidojomofo Valued Member

    That's pretty much the case. It's an even bigger problem since the major teachers have left the hombu over the last 10 years to set up their own things.

    I only know about the existence of 6th Dan test as I am going out to Japan in October to uke for my teacher who is grading to 6th Dan under Takeno Sensei (a 9th Dan, so one of the only people within Yoshinkan who could conduct such a test) But it's a very rare thing. Hopefully we'll get a video of it...
     

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