Using martial arts in a self defense situation

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by EdiSco, Feb 28, 2016.

  1. EdiSco

    EdiSco Likes his anonymity

    Hi guys,

    So I've only trained a few months and I am forming an opinion about using martial arts techniques for defending yourself against a physical assault.

    I very stupidly asked my training partner who was smaller than me and has been training for same amount of time to throw a right hook at me at my temple area (I had a Exigo Head Guard on and he had 16oz gloves on). I guess I just didn't expect much so I hadn't tensed my neck muscles much but boy did I FEEL it....I had a headache the rest of the evening. Now, I know for a fact that if I didn't have the head guard on and he was bare-knuckle, I probably wouldn't have been able to drive home that evening or worse! It just all sank in :eek: in a real life situation, I doubt someone would be able to survive a good hook/uppercut to the jaw...I just don't see a fight lasting more than 2-3 seconds. In the street, it's more about who's willing to do more and who has nothing to lose and using deception of words to distract and then attack by surprise.

    I now know my strengths and weaknesses. I have a good right hook and left uppercut but my left (lead) hook sucks. I'm working on my jab which ain't too shabby but needs to be developed more. Right cross needs more work.

    basically my point is, martial arts to me are now more than just self defense. I have now gone to doing judo twice per week and boxing just once cos Judo is just too much fun :) I'm just going to continue drilling right hook and left uppercut combo so if I ever needed it, it would be automatic. It needn't be complicated, that's what I'm thinking. you don't need 20 techniques, you just need to be an expert at at only 2-5 that work for you. I used to think a fight would be a 5 mins of punching and kicking like in the movies but reality is very very different. The biggest advantage boxing gives me is to learn how to block a punch and protect the head at all costs...

    What I can't understand is how the pro fighters can survive relentless punches and kicks for so long?! They're only human after all. do they take some sort of drugs before a match?
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2016
  2. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    People can take a lot more punishment than you think. Fights can easily last more than 2-3 seconds. Maxims like "In the street, it's more about who's willing to do more and who has nothing to lose and using deception of words to distract and then attack by surprise." don't really capture the situation. The truth is that it's highly variable.
     
  3. EdiSco

    EdiSco Likes his anonymity

    True. And I'm not saying a boxer would always come out on top...if the thug with no training at all but the knowledge of fundamentals of knockout punched first by surprise, it could be over for the trained fighter :/
     
  4. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Well a couple of flaws to your thought process. Firstly, you've been training only a few months. You will be shocked how much better you will be after a few years. You will also be able to take a punch better too. That's what happens when you spend years on it.

    Pro fighters (the ones who care about their health) will spar fast and light. Very rarely will you find two people swinging for the fences. They get good with drills, not just sparring.

    Fighting in the street is not what you think it is. Confrontations are so avoidable it's crazy. Even when someone is squaring up to you they don't actually want to fight. They just want the ego boost. You give them that and they leave you alone.

    Anyway, keep up the good work man, consistency beats intensity.
     
  5. Prizewriter

    Prizewriter Moved on

    http://youtu.be/qSX0PCQXiO4

    This has been posted here before but look at how well this guy does with head movement. Anyone can throw a punch. Boxing for me was the art of not getting hit. People rarely work on that when they start boxing, everyone wants to ko someone. Then reality kicks in and you realise you can get ko'd just as easy.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2016
  6. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

  7. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    The problem with this video is it's a sunny day, flat ground, a wide open space, a set up, no risk of damage of hit, no pushing and shoving, no verbal exchange, no adrenaline dump, no risk of being hit by his mates, no partner to protect, no holding of belongings (phone, wallet, keys), so both hands are free and so the list goes on.

    Get a real threat and then see how well you do in the drill

    It's unlikely you'll ever get that much time.
     
  8. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    They can, but again there are issues with this. Why break away only to square up to the aggressor again?

    This isn't self defence, it's seeing who the better fighter is.

    Cop should have drawn a weapon to discourage the aggressor.
     
  9. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    They're all valid points, however you're a bit heavy on the pessimism. I think the key thing to take away from that video is that the average Joe can't throw a punch, and a quick slip and combo of your own would get you by in a fight. That guy could have thrown punches back and ended those guys fairly easy I imagine.


    It's not accurate to a situation like SIM days, but it is a good example of the average man's skill in throwing a punch.
     
  10. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    I don't think he's even a cop, looks like just a security guard. Not saying it was a good example of self defense.
     
  11. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Maybe the average man can't throw a punch, but is that what we train against? I'd hope not.

    A few of the MOD Team and Janno were out last night and we were saying that someone who does rugby and boxing would be a formidable opponent. Can hit and can take a hit.

    Over the years I've heard many people say, "I could do this or that", or " have a really hard punch".

    My reply is always the same.

    What happens when you get hit?

    The fear factor can be immense and if you've not drilled it, it ain't going to work when you want it.

    I love boxing and it forms a large part of what I do.

    It ain't self defence.

    That said punches are my go to technique as soon as I'm able to throw them.
     
  12. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    It's not a self defence demo though is it? It's a demonstration of head movement, which is a skill you see utilised against high level strikers constantly and we all know works as a defensive measure against a pugilistic attack.

    Head movement works against a real threat ie a strike with intent to KO or connect with force in the midst of a fight - which is all people claim. A real threat isnt necessarily limited to all or any of the things you mentioned and the video isnt about self defence so why you are pointing out their exclusion is a mystery to me :confused:
     
  13. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Don't get me wrong I think the head movement is impressive and it's something I teach.

    I have a video showing the applications on my YouTube channel.

    All I am saying if that the majority of things I hear in regard to self defence are about what we'd do to the aggressor.

    It does need to be backed up with an understanding of what it's like to get hit too.
     
  14. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    Well I definitely agree with that. I think that's the largest reason why hard contact sparring (not always but reasonably frequently) should me mandatory in training and why I think competition is so good for those who are inclined.

    I would say that developing headmovent is just as essential though!
     
  15. EdiSco

    EdiSco Likes his anonymity

    That's what I'm not really looking forward to anymore after getting right hooked (even though I had the headgear and gum shield on) lol! I suppose I'll get used to it?

    health is way more important to me than learning how to fight - when they say you learn how to take a hit in boxing, do they mean you get good at tolerating the pain/shock and still incur the head trauma or do you get good at deflecting the impact of the force? Unfortunately, hard core boxers have a reputation of slurring speech etc. (ie being boxing drunk) due to all the brain damage by getting hit. I do really wana have at least 3 amateur fights for testing myself under pressure but don't wana incur brain damage in the process. However the gym I go to have decent coaches and always talk about avoiding injury and the importance of safety gear/wraps etc.
     
  16. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    Yeah I think you learn to be proactive with your head movement to cover up and to create angles which all mitigate against impact, also you get used to bracing for impact a bit too. Probably development of neck muscles helps a small amount. Hard contact isnt full contact either.

    Edit - don't stress about it though either. Best just relax and build up to it. Talk to your coach and communicate with your sparring partners during the round. Like Bob hoskins used to say "it's good to talk".
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2016
  17. Matt F

    Matt F Valued Member

    No one knows whats going to be needed to be done in a SD situation as it's too variable and random and can happen at anytime, anywhere, while a person is doing anything. Which means action has to be made up on the spot, be it physical or psychological and a person needs as many things to draw on as possible be it physically and using every part of your body and anything to hand ( strike, clinch, grapple, weapon) and psychological ( using the environment, being sneaky, clever, humorous, wise, random etc) to get out of or survive the situation.
    What will actually be needed will not be known until its happening and needs to be made up as its happening.
     
  18. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    I would say for real world situations, the most important factor is experience. A close second is attitude/fighting spirit. And distant third are the factors such as skill, "genetic make up", conditioning, strength, and general knowledge.

    Through experience, your body will adapt and then specific knowledege and principles can be applied. For instance, you will get more used to being stunned/dazed and learn how to recover faster. You will learn how to better move small amounts to lessen the damage taken (roll with hits). You will learn not to get caught holding the breath, inhaling, or with mouth open, both would make it more likely to get knocked out when hit. And maybe most important, you won't as likely panic.

    Fighting spirit, including higher tolerance to pain, should not be hard to figure out the usefulness. Maybe most important for life and death situations is to never give up.

    Some people are genetically more susceptible to brain injuries. Best to always give the mind/body time to heal. We go somewhere around no more than three times and then give it three weeks to heal. It is not factually based knowledge, it is more of a tradition. What it means is if you are training to absorb hits to the jaw, if it gets to the point that you take a solid hit and "see stars", take the standing eight count to learn to recover (see what count before you actually are aware again). Don't do this more than three times. After that, don't do it again for three weeks. For me, since I'm a bit more susceptible (doesn't take as much to knock me out), I limit it to two times and might go four weeks to heal.

    With more recent information about concussions, it might not be safe to even do this on any regular basis.

    I'm not a doctor so don't take the above as advice. Take it as just information on how the body can adapt.

    For advice, I would say, when wearing protect gear, respect the technique the same as if no protective gear was in place. Learn to both reduce the damage and be a hard to hit target. You can move less than half the width of your body to avoid most attacks. The exception would be if you were training to use the gear, such as a body armor, as part of your technique. Realism is what I mean.

    Lastly, in a self-defense situation, you might not know exactly what or when something is coming. For example, a friend of mine that had years in martial arts was ambushed. Before he knew what was happening he had been hit in the face and multiple more times by punches.

    However, there are things you can prepare better for by making decisions ahead of time, such as when will you fight and when will you just give in and hand over your wallet? How far will you go? Make these decisions ahead of time based on good information.
     
  19. Prizewriter

    Prizewriter Moved on

    Edisco this was from your Judo vs BJJ thread:

    We all start out thinking like that, then Sweet Lady Reality knocks on our door at some point lol. You can learn to absorb more punishment, but it's better to avoid getting hit. Remember too you can use grappling as a means to avoid getting hit. Boxing is great, head movement and footwork are wonderful to avoid getting hit, but the rule set is a bit restrictive.
     
  20. EdiSco

    EdiSco Likes his anonymity

    LOL! good one. Good thing I'm really enjoying Judo then :p
     

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