Just wondering if anyone has any knowledge of or trained in the Tactical Edge system of Mark Davies? A local club is holding a seminar and is going to be teaching the system and was wondering if it was worth going along to the seminar to have a go, or saving my cash and not bothering. The little info I have found is below, it does sound a bit like krav maga (and its being taught at the krav maga place in Edinburgh) which may or may not be bad. Any info would be helpful What will YOU Learn? Unarmed Combatives Striking Techniques (strikes, punches, kicks, limb destructions, blocks parries & evasions) Takedown Techniques, Locking & Joint Breaking, Use of the Environment. Weapons Defence Counter Edged Weapons, Counter Impact Weapons, Counter Firearms. Skill at Arms Edged Weapons (folding knife skills, fixed blade skills, double edged knives, front grip techniques, reverse grip techniques, 'pakal', karambit, large knife methods) Impact Weapons (baton techniques, short stick techniques, use of the stinger, use of the impact karambit) Flexible Weapons (bandanna, v-gar, ligature techniques), Improvised Weapons (used of everyday items as edged, impact or flexible weapons), Basic Tactical Firearms (pistolcraft, force on force training) . Defensive Mental Conditioning Adrenal Stress Conditioning, Fear Control, Tactics. Defensive Pistolcraft & Force on Force Training Fighting back is always better than doing nothing & dying. If you can disarm an attacker knowing how to use the weapon with some proficiency it is a massive tactical advantage. In the USA one of the scenarios they consider is a number of armed terrorists or criminals opening fire in a shopping mall or similar crowded place. Someone with the training to be able to effectively fight back, gain a weapon & then ruthlessly employ it could save countless lives. Unlikely? Nobody thought anyone would fly aircraft into the twin towers either did they? In the USA some ground breaking instructors such as Gabrial Suarez are addressing these scenarios in their training courses. In Tactical Edge we think its important too.
I'm on the list for first refusal for the seminar, but no date or prices at the moment. Unless I can find some further info or its really cheap then I may not do it. Looking at his website it does look like he's done a lot of seminars so hoped that someone on here would have done one or known someone that has.
Tactical Edge Hi I'm the founder of Tactical Edge. I don't have a firm date yet for the seminar I'm doing for Darren at Solo MA, but I can let you know when I do. Darren is currently working through our instructors programme, & should be starting a training group at some point in the future. I understand how dissapointing it is when you pay money to go on a seminar & find that you've learned nothing, or just a re-hash of stuff you've seen a million times before. I've been through it myself many times over the past 28 years or so. If you would like to know more about Tactical Edge & whether my seminars are worth the money feel free to ask a few of the folks who have hosted me & ask me back regularly: Master Richard Vince down in Norwich- masterinstructor@blackbelt4sure.com, or John McIllvaney at Livingstone TaeKwon-Do- gmactkd@blueyonder.co.uk, or Phil Lear from London- PLearTKD@aol.com, or Martin O'Callaghan from Carryduff TKD in Belfast- martin.10@ntlworld.com. Any of these guys will give you an unbiased opinon of what I deliver on a seminar. If you want to check out my credentials feel free to speak to Master at Arms James A Keating- comtech@bmi.com or jak@jamesakeating.com. You are correct, I do alot of seminars for Marcus Houston at Krav Maga Edinburgh. This is because Marcus is my most senior Tactical Edge student, & he also teaches Tactical Edge. There is very little similarity between Tactical Edge & Krav Maga, they are two very different systems. If you would like a more educated explanation about the difference speak to Marcus Houston, he is always happy to explain how he sees things- You can reach Marcus at info@kravmagaedinburgh.com. I'm obviously biased, but after the seminar I performed for Martin & Trevor from Carryduff WTF TaeKwon-Do a JuJutsu instructor came up to me & asked me to sign his licence booklet for him. He said to me "I do alot of seminars, & my organisation gets alot of instructors over from different styles to perform seminars. I'm not blowing smoke up your **** but this is the best seminar I have EVER done". Nicest thing anyone has said to me, & it meant a lot- as this guy was pretty good himself. I originally created Tactical Edge as a method of Close Combat for the UKSF unit that I work with. The methods I put together were based on my experiences applying my training in combat. In the early 90's I started getting people enquiring about training in pure RBSD & I opened it up to a small group of martial artists. As the years went on it evolved into the present system that I teach. Tactical Edge is a conceptual system, it has a core of base concepts that everything else is built around. It is heavily influenced by the SE Asian fighting arts, particularly Pekiti Tirsia; & by James Keatings ComTech system- elements of which are a standard part of our study in Tactical Edge. If you would like any more information please don't hesitate to contact me, & any of the people I've listed will be happy to give you their opinions. Mark Davies
Hi Mark, Thanks for taking the time to post. I'm sure you won't mind GB-UK posts a review of your event if he does make it along. We are trying to develop the WMA area within MAP and I think reviews and articles are the best way of achieving that. Also it would be good to promote some discussion on this modern trend of military based martial instruction and it's suitability for civilian use. The Bear.
Hi Bear I'm always happy see reviews of my seminars. The civilian version of Tactical Edge is very different from the military version as the needs of a soldier on the battlefield are very different to those of a civilian, & the force ladder for obvious legal reasons is different. The civilian version of Tactical Edge retains the core concepts that the original military version of Tactical Edge uses, but is massively expanded to explore methods & ideas that we simply don't have time to work on within the military. Obvilously there are also elements of the military system that we leave out as there is simply no need for a civilian to train in those methods. What I guess I'm trying to say is that what I teach to civilians, although based on the core concepts of the military system, is not miltary martial arts instruction- it is quite different. The types of threat & the situationals that we need to work on as civilians are obviously quite different to what you might encounter as SF in the Tora Bora caves, so methods have to evolve to work in different arenas. There is obviously some cross-over, but where-as the military system is aimed to be taught quickly & maintained easily, my civilian system has a great deal of longevity & is about exploring different fighting methods, tactics & strategies. Thanks for the chance to say my piece. Mark
Ah this is a good point and one that my good friend Bill Coyle and I have discussed at length. Bill's Makotokai club used to train out of the Royal Marine Barracks in Glasgow and we would get the opportunity to train with the Marines and other services and it was certainly an eye opener. The main surprise being the lack of hand to hand training they received. A memorable comment from one sergeant was that they didn't usually bother because they normally just shoot people. As such the martial artists were better trained at dealing with hand to hand encounters purely because they has spent far longer training in it. This I think coincides with your comment about quickly taught and easily maintained as the modern soldier doesn't have the same amount of time to put in to melee martial arts training as many civilians do. The Bear.
One thing that Afghanistan brought home to SF (though probably not so much to 'green army' units) was the greater need for good hand to hand training. For many years the attitude was that H2H wasn't really required, as most of the powers that be were in the mindframe that battles would be massive affairs as the Russian army rolled over the German Border. The Falklands chaged that to a small degree for some people, as there was some H2H encountered there clearing trenches & suchlike; but attitudes for the most part remained the same. The wake-up call was the close quarters fighting that was encountered in Afghanistan. For example, in the Tora Bora caves many of our guys HAD to use edged weapons & even chunks of rock, as firearms were of very little use at times. In many military units H2H is still pretty poor, even some of the units you would imagine to have a good H2H curriculum simply don't. The unit I work with has great constraints put upon it for training time, due to the immense number of operational commitments it has. However, it places a great deal of importance on H2H, so when members are available they regularly rotate through an intensive training course; working unarmed & edged weapons. The one place the US is definitely ahead of us is in the improtance they place on H2H training. I worked with both the US Naval Special Warfare (SEAL's) & elements of the US Marine Corps, & they took H2H very seriously. They regularly get good outside instructors in to add their sauce to the mix & train the trainers. You have guys like Bill Bagwell working his Bowie with the Rangers, Kelly Worden does alot with US Army SF, & many of their instructors spend time with my friend Jim Keating working on specialist skills. To my mind a military system may be suitable to teach a civilian basic combative skills in a short period of time, but if the student has more time to devote to training there are more sophisticated (by that I don't mean complicated, just more skill based) & better methods that can be learned & developed. The other shortfall of some of the miltary based systems being taught to civilians now is that they have no longevity, there is very little there to explore or develop. Mark
So for your Tactical Edge system. How do you go about pressure testing your system to ensure it's effective? You may not know but I am a member of the Glasgow Company of Duellists (www.glasgowduellists.co.uk) where we do historical swordsmanship. Our method of pressure testing is through a duelling system. So our "fighting" members continually test and develop skills by fighting (usually every week) against another club member and then we test our skills nationally at events. So do you use a similar method and if so how do you balance safety with effective combat simulation. Cheers, The Bear.
Bear We have several different exercises we do to 'pressure test' the student. At the most basic level one we do is we will set up a scenario, the person or people acting as the attacker(s) will be briefed on the scenario & the parameters of what is permissable during the simulation. The defender will then be put through a short but intense set of physical exercises to as closely as possible mimic the physical effects of adrenal stress & to degrade fine motor skills, upon the instructors command during these exercises the simulation will begin with the attacker(or attackers) acting as closely as they can to actual assailants in mannerisms, verbal aggression etc. Depending on the skill level & experience of the student being tested the attackers can be given some leeway as to how they 'shape' the situation, so for instance if the defender makes a balls up & doesn't effectively deal with the initial attack they may find that they have a weapon deployed against them & the situation has escalated dramatically. After the instructor has called time on the simulation we will have a de-brief & see what went right, what went wrong & what could be done to improve performance. Mark
Sounds good Mark. Lemme know when your next seminar is and I might try to come along and see what you guys are doing. Handy that we are in the same country The Bear.
Hi Mark, thanks for the further info. Sounds great and am looking forwards to having a look at your stuff at the upcoming seminar. Will spread the word among some friends as they will propably enjoy this aswell.
HI Hi All, I have come across this thread and i feel i have to comment. I have attended many Tactical Edge seminars under Mark Davies and after every single one i have came away with a lot of concepts that i have taken home and played with to become as proficient as i can. This year i have attended seminars on Bowie knife fighting, asian blade concepts, single and double stick and also defence against edged weapons..... i think i have listed them all lol. And i wil be looking forward to the next one on improvised weapons in 2 weeks time. I could go on and on about how good the instruction is and how good the material is but i don't want to blow smoke up marks **** too much lol. What i will say is that after you have attended you will be raving about it for ages. I have not went into depth about the content of the seminars but if anybody would like to ask me to expand on it i will be more than happy to do that. Johnno
Bear, Mark is coming down to Glasgow on Saturday 18th June, HubSports, Wellhouse Crescent, G33 4LA, 1 TILL 5, He is also doing a seminar for kids involving anti bullying and thats 10 till 12
