Right. Cash prizes, trophies, etc. Entertainment. What are you saying was the spirit of pangration then? (Directed at IMAS. Sorry PA.) Both involved spectators. But I think the overall purpose of viewership was very different between those two.
For example, people will pay to watch Judo in the Olympic Game but not the national or regional championship. Could it be that the Olympic Game is part of the entertainment industry and Judo is not?
People pay to buy tickets to see "something" at the olympic games. What sport they end up being for is a lottery IIRC. The events are handed out pretty randomly as far as I know. My cousin got two lots of tickets. One for rowing and one for equestrian. It could easily have been judo or whatever. You aren't making any sense to be honest.
Yeah, that actually confused me more. Rereading the previous post (after reading this one), I realized I could have read it differently. In that the "spirit of pangration" could be different from the entertainment field around it. Thinking about boxing in the same way, I love the "spirit of boxing." I'm much less enamoured with the business of boxing promotion, etc. Two very different things. But this post has me flummoxed.
If you're going to make that claim, then you're going to have to provide some sources from historians that explain as much. In short, who has argued that pankration evolved/gave way to gladiator matches and by what means?
Thank you for the skepticism and is kind of interesting to see various reactions from this forum. It is easy just to adopt the spirit of the Olympic Game since there was pangration in the Ancient Olympic game. Modern pangration is not pangration as in the Ancient Olympic game therefore any suggestion for the spirit of pangration? I am trying to make it sounds a bit more than just a stepping stone to profession MMA.
Sooo, any historical link of pankration to gladiators? Also, I am interested in how you deem pankration the 'closest to reality'? What is meant by that and how is that measured? Are you saying that no techniques are barred from full contact competitive pankration?
i think it's fine that you're doing what you're trying to do. i think more combat sports are a good thing. as long as you're honest about what you're trying to accomplish (spirit, re-create this ancient sport), then i don't have a problem. i would just be careful about "more realistic" than mma type of stuff.
I am not sure but try this link: http://www.aibudo.com/history/pankratn/pankratn.html The Romans would later adopt Pankration into their particular athletic contests, but their modifications would degrade it to a mere blood sport. The fighters were now armed with the dreaded caestus, a weighted and spiked glove which reigned blows with deadly results. In Rome it was not unusual for such public brutality, as it was the rule rather than the exception, to quench the spectator's thirst for gore. This alteration, however, diminished the skill and aesthetic value that the Greek race had come to admire in their athletes. Rarely, if ever, did a true Greek Pankratiast participate in the savage gladiatorial arenas of Rome, even though they were often tempted by higher purses and positions within the powerful Roman empire.
Work your way back into that URL. It's someone who created his own style of "aibudo." As historical citations go, that one's a bit dodgy.
I agree with ap's post above and I'll add that the article cites no other historical/archaeological works at all and gives no evidence for it's argument. You'd have to dig up something more than that. I'm not deeply knowledgeable about Europe's ancient history, but I do wonder how you came to the conclusion about the pankration-gladiator link, as that seems a bit far fetched (I'll happily retract that if proven wrong).
I like the statement that said "Rarely, if ever, did a true Greek Pankratiast participate in the savage gladiatorial arenas of Rome, even though they were often tempted by higher purses and positions within the powerful Roman empire." Can you prove that "aidudo" is not credible?
Are their any legitimate groups out there training/studying anything close to the actual art? How do guys like Jim Arvanitis, who is trying to resurrect Panktration through a combination of historical analysis and mixing of modern martial arts, fit in? I would say he has done a lot to promote the ideas of the art, but how is he perceived amongst other factions of the art? http://www.jimarvanitis.com/bio.html
Whereas most gladiators were just trying not to get killed and, maybe, to eventually be released. Nope. Can't prove that Whitley Strieber wasn't kidnapped by aliens either. That doesn't make him a credible resource. As dormindo pointed out, credible historical resources connect their ideas to the research of others in the field. Grade-school-level concept, that is. There's none of that here. That doesn't concern you? p.s. It's "aibudo," an awkward amalgam of Japanese terms slammed together to sound plausibly Asian.
Define credible? It exists but looking at the website there are a number of red flags that would make me think twice about going.
He is not alone, the USA Federation of Pankration Athlima Federation is recognized by World Pangration Athlima Federation and FILA. It is creating a amateur sport of fighting, as it were in the Ancient Olympic. There is nothing to resurrect as it is not even a system of martial art in Greece.
I was thinking that Pangration is a kind of amateur MMA. But after some years of participation it was clear that there are many differences. One of the realistic question is whether Cage fighting is more realistic than open mat fighting. Cage fighting is more entertaining for the viewers but open mat fighting is also entertainment for the participants.
