Slapping the mat in breakfalls

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Southpaw535, Sep 17, 2017.

  1. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

  2. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    In my early Vale Tudo days (yes Im that old) the teacher was a Sambo champion and he was adamante a slap should be heard.
    I can get why, the psychological need to make it happen, prevents posting and injuries etc (see above posts).
    But I never seen anyone slapping a mat during a comp.
    I guess when you're used to it....you're used to it.
     
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  3. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    Sometime you won't know how you may land. You will need to learn more than 1 break fall method.



     
  4. aikiMac

    aikiMac aikido + boxing = very good Moderator Supporter

    Having taken my share of hard falls, I can say that the landing hurts less when the slap is done right.
    Eh, good mechanics -- who knew it matters? :p

    And exactly like you said, in my experience, when the slap is done wrong, there is no benefit. The landing does not hurt less (and it might actually hurt more, if you really mess up the slap!)


    I noticed that, too, and always assumed it's a combination of (1) their floor is springy, and (2) it looks better for the drama, the storyline they're playing, for them to appear to be taking a really terrible fall.

    I don't know about that. For me, having an aikido foundation, rolling is always preferred. "When I fall I always roll." The slap is only used for Plan B -- when I can't roll. But if I can't roll then I don't know that "spreading out" would actually help. I'd have to experiment with that. Never thought about it, honestly.
     
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  5. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    Keeping the hand together when slapping - cupping the hand to make a pop may not significantly help in reducing over all force of impact with the floor, But it trains you to keep your fingers together and to make sure they hit the floor in a controlled manner. If you dont control your hand when you fall, your fingers can hit the ground at any angle and possibly snap.
     
  6. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    It depends on the vector of the force and whether you can control the vector. The iakido guys I have met have been the best at converting into the roll. with a good roll there is almost no sound as the downward vector of the force is converted to a horizontal roll parallel to the floor then to a vertical roll up to the feet. Little or no force is absorbed by the falling body.

    The really good guys I have met can virtually roll on the spot. with very little movement across the floor. But it takes a lot of practice to get that good. Generally most people require space to roll in. In addition it takes another level of skill again to roll if the person throwing you is still attached to you has you fall.

    The break fall works differently from the roll in that the force of hitting the ground is taken directly by the body but spread out over as wide an area as possible reducing the point force applied to any particular area.

    Rolling should always be preferred but is not always possible given the physical restraints of a situation.
     
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  7. Latikos

    Latikos Valued Member

    For some reason that sentence made me remember when I was training with a bluebelt who wanted to work on his brownbelt.
    One of the throws he practiced made him held both of my arms, and despite being told several times, he only once let go of my arm, so I could slap the mat.
    And it sure made a difference (for me anyway) if I was able to slap the mat or not.

    I mean - I was lucky: I have rather good ukemi, so I managed to still land right on my Latissimus, which I think is nicer, compared to missing it.
    And also he wasn't throwing with full force.
    Our teacher made him stop in the end, because he wasn't willing to see me get thrown without being able to slap the ground :rolleyes:
    :D
     
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  8. SCA

    SCA Former Instructor

    Maybe there is some confusion here about what it means to actively or deliberately slap.

    What you don't want to be doing is adding more force to the fall. So if you were to start crouched and slowly roll back or to the side, there shouldn't be a heavy or really loud smack of the hand. The "slap" is there to complete the motion but only for what is necessary. When students are first learning though, there can be a tendency to add more slap than what is required.
     
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  9. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    In the traditional JJ only forward or side break falls involve arms hitting the floor, and even then it is done softly (kinda like a piston effect) rather than a slap as taught in judo/BJJ. When falling backwards we're taught to keep the arms in tight and if you roll (any direction) then you don't slap the floor. This approach works well on hard floors, keeps you in a better defensive position and provides for a smoother roll if appropriate

    TBH I don't really know why slapping was introduced and, in a self defence context, the idea of accelerating my bony arm towards a hard surface during a fall seems very counter intuitive to me
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2017
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  10. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I guess it was introduced because it works well on mats.

    On hard surfaces, the soles of the shoes can be used to take some velocity out of a fall if the person throwing you is preventing you from landing gently (I guess it wouldn't work so well with tabi). I'm not much of a roller, but "rocking" is how I land without injury on hard surfaces - the same principle as rolling but abbreviated. Slowly introducing parts of yourself to the ground to dissipate the energy.
     
  11. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    You can slap the mat with your leg too.
     
  12. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    Yeah - we are taught that if thrown right over (e.g. over the hip) to try to get your feet to the floor first and use the legs to absorb the initial impact

    Rolling on hard floors is no problem if you do it correctly
     
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  13. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    The thing I don't like about rolling is that it is very hard to keep a gauge on the situation with peripheral vision. It also slows response time a bit, because you have to get out of the roll first. Sometimes you just fall into a roll naturally, but I don't seek them.

    That's not a criticism, just a different approach.
     
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  14. Rataca100

    Rataca100 Banned Banned

    Sorry, question, do you mean slapping the mat as in slapping it or does that refer to a particular breakfall? (Sorry for the link offsite, the only pcitures i can quickly find) would this be a slapping break fall? Marine Corps Martial Arts Tan Belt - Back Break Fall - Black Belt Wiki


    I am a man and opts for paralasis or death over abreak fall. :p ( code for i dont know any)

    The only reasons for a slap i can sense, is so the teacher knows you are doing it right that or you did it by accident, because lets be real some things you cant help doing.

    Also, near the bottom of that page i linked it has "~ Slap the deck with both extended arms and palms to help disperse the impact. Contact between the deck and your torso and arms should happen simultaneously and your arms should form a 45-degree angle to your body"
     
  15. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Feet can be used when arms aren't available....

     
  16. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    A good roll will keep your opponent in your line of sight

    Not sure what you mean about slowing reaponse time? The idea is to disengage and create space
     
  17. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Surely that depends on the direction of travel, and you don't always get to choose that?

    Yeah, I find that most often either your opponent won't allow that (via grips), or I'd rather stay in close and take the advantage of surprise (people either tend to relax for a split second and/or not know exactly how you're going to land when you're on the way down). Rolling has it's place for me, but it's an occasional use.
     
  18. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    Sometime you just borrow the momentum.



    You can also use your leg to slap the mat to reduce the shocking.

     
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  19. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    On a hard surface you want the sole of your shoe to hit the ground, not your leg.
     
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  20. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    Sure, but with the exception of directly away from your opponent you can pull it off - and if you're good at rolling you can determine/change the direction to a greater or lesser extent

    I find that a roll is a great way to strip grips

    You also have the option to strike as you roll - which helps you reset the situation
     

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