Discussion in 'Chinese Martial Arts Articles' started by Anth, Mar 27, 2008.
More sit ups might help with that.....oh I see what you mean :evil:
KunTao is not a specific system-it's a broad term in certain geographic locales for systems either Chinese or hybrids which developed out of the same being blended w/local practices/systems.
P.S.-Bruce's first system is arguably Hung Gar.
And finally,@ 47MM- "-Actually, it went to China, people fiddled with it, it became Quan Fa (Gong fu is a misnomer)"
I think the more proper term,being not limited to the idea of simple fisticuffs,is Wu Shu. (None of my own teachers of Chinese extraction ever used the words ch'uan fa,they would use WS,and not referring to the modern flash show).
I thought Kuntao was almost a style and of of itself now and the origins were geographic....thansk for the clarification!
Is this akin to saying "Shaolin" then?
It was Tai chi...his dad was a Wu practitioner and taught him when he was a nipper
I am using the literal translation of "gung fu", not inventing styles, what I meant is anybody can develop their "gung fu" wherever they are. "Bruce Lee's Gung Fu" is called Jeet Kune Do was developed across the globe... and in fact Lee himself equated his format for formlessness to the "true spirit of kung fu". My own perspective on his writings is that he felt the performance and demonstrations of kung fu had eclipsed the actual refinement and practice of combat, which is probably true in many varying fields of art beyond martial arts. Painting styles ebb and flow in the same way, from complex to minimal, sometimes as a way of rebelling against past styles and themes. Bruce Lee was born in an age of relatively complex arts and I think he used his (largely Shaolin influenced) training to learn a personal refinement method that certainly seemed to be working at the time of his untimely passing. Bruce Lee is certainly an "ambassador of Shaolin" to non-Chinese civilization and I'd even argue the Shaolin Temple itself today, the commercial and cultural powerhouse it still is in China, would not be nearly the same today without Lee's contributions. However he certainly never played Ping Pong with nunchaku on film, that thing is fake!
To be honest the whole "gung fu" discussion was a side track and a bit of gentle ribbing....I tend to agree with your assessment of JKD, although would nitpick in the sense that JFGF was certainly intended to be a style - he just moved beyond that idea when he formed JKD
Wait, you created your own art?
Han- I have yet to hear/read Lee learned anything other than solo hand form from his dad.If that's the case,I can't consider that an individua's 1st system I don't know what age he learned the TC form at,but I do know he was also still a kid when he was exposed to Hung,and attempted using it-see Jesse G.'s book.
KunTao as a descriptive term is way more accurate than using Shaolin as a descriptive term---because so many "Shaolin" systems have no back up to show they originated w/Shaolin.
In my opinion Shaolin hasnt been about combat for a very long time - and it shows.
To me it is a fragmentated art today, with tiny bits and pieces from the past(of whatever info that survived or avoided destruction)
Folks in that place do train very hard and very long though and they are capable of some pretty harsh stuff in terms of taking trauma to their bodies, but the entire martial aspect is in my opinion long gone.
Some claim their "ancient" forms principles are being utilized in San Da, i call that BS.
Also an important thing to remember; in China fiction and non fiction are not separated as we know it untill very "recently". So Shaolin history should be looked at accordingly.
As i see things Shaolin Temple died shortly after the year 1928 and the loss of abbot Shi Miao Xing. Ever since it has been "survival" and with only a handfull of people having fragments of knowledge of old applications and practises.
Agree with "some" of your post
A few discussion links:
Thanks a lot for the links, i will have a look at them. My post is ofcourse just my opinion, it is partly based on having lived there for 8 months and while this is not a very long time, or anything particular today, it did occur back in the late 1980`s where the training center was starting up.
Lots of stuff were happening in that period, a lot of it not very pretty. How do I know?
Through coincidence I met up with certain folks inside the Temple proper and was invited into their “family” (31st gen.) Including meeting folks who could speak both the local variation of Mandarin and English.
When not staying together with them, trying to keep sane, I was practicing everyday at the training center, a couple of hundred metres down the road.
So I have met many of the folks(local Chinese and foreign) that have since promoted themselves in various ways and know them by name today. I am not on some vendetta I wish them the best but I for one refuse to take part in something that I see as “artificial”. Be assured I had the chance.
I think the touring performances worldwide as well as all the hype concerning Shi Yong Xin speaks for themselves.
At least you woke up and "smelled the coffee". Some people are still in a state of "ignorant bliss"
I would not mind visiting Shaolin, but not for the martial arts
Yup, i agree. I have too much stuff in my "backpack" to ever wishing going back though.
I bet you have some stories to tell. Like Matthew Polly
Oh yeah. I dont know Matthew though. If you are interested i would gladly share some photos from back then(in a pm). Got a few both from winter and summer. Beautiful landscape at least.
Yes! Please! Thanks!
you have got mail.
Those were AWESOME. Going when it snowed added a nice touch
Have you visited the Great Wall and also Shaanxi Province?
No, i never went outside Henan province. Back then it was a bit of a hassle to get a Visa that allowed for travelling around in various areas of China. I had to report to the Police every 3 months or so.
I may be mistaken, but the Terracotta Soldiers are in Shaanxi Province
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