Problems with... denial?

Discussion in 'Aikido' started by Anarch, Aug 12, 2012.

  1. FunctionalSD

    FunctionalSD Valued Member

    It's on my list of things to add to my site...to add a page on that. My site is relatively new and I've still got a lot to add. I've got a variety of scenario drills and the interactions depend on the situation/context. So it's everything from simply saying "no" and walking away to de-esclation of the "what are you looking at" game.
     
  2. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    You seem to have the answers now, but by showing the clips and ideas in isolation you are coming across as critical, but to the knowing eye showing your own weaknesses.

    I would leave out the critque of other arts. It'll make things come across a lot better.
     
  3. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    very much in agreement with this. look, there's a lot to learn even if your "art" isn't exactly the most "street lethal" or "realistic self defense" thing out there. even in aikido. or ninjutsu or whatever.

    i had an aikido instructor, who after some time of me being in aikido and knowing my experience in hapkido, while we were horsing around a bit jacked me in the lip one night. he honestly thought i would evade. it was a great reminder that the principles (evade attack or get off the line) are always important (having a fat lip was a nice reminder for a few days). i was too focused on aikido instead of just getting out of the way, it was a great lesson learned. i've seen other instructors note (high ranking instructors from both usaf and hombu) once you've "entered" and are behind an attacker, you know, just jack said attacker in the jaw or roundhouse them in the ribs. but if you don't want to hurt them, then <insert aikido technique here>.

    the martial principles are there in aikido. maybe it's just needing the right instructor to bring them out (see koyo)? or the right mind set and experience of the user? maybe it's cross-training to learn how to use the tools and principles? maybe it's a combination of all those things? at any rate, pressure testing what you're doing isn't a bad thing. maybe a sport art does a better job of bridging that divide? i know when i box that i better get out of the way. and i've certainly learned how to give a nice stiff jab to create space.
     
  4. FunctionalSD

    FunctionalSD Valued Member

    We'll just have to agree to disagree. :)
     
  5. aikiMac

    aikiMac aikido + boxing = very good Moderator Supporter

    Turn it around: I sincerely hope you are never on the receiving end of the aikido techniques in the YouTube demo of the Japanese dojo, as they were applied in that video. It's gonna hurt.

    Sorrowfully, what you missed from your own aikido days is the lesson that throws and standing locks cannot work until you first off-balance the attacker. There are distinct and definite aikido methods for off-balancing an attacker. It might be that some schools are not "martial" enough for "the str33t." I can concede that. What I cannot concede is that you learned how aikido is supposed to be done as "aikido."

    I used to think that. For real. I actually used to say that to my teacher and to my classmates. I really did. Blame the stupidity of youth, right? I stopped doing that after several of the black belts tossed me around like a toy in randori class.

    To each his own.
     
  6. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    Cool.

    I ask because this is where a lot of my interest lie at the moment due to some of the stuff I do outside of MA.

    Could you take us through one of the drills?

    Preferably something more than "no" walk away :D
     
  7. FunctionalSD

    FunctionalSD Valued Member

    They're not static, so there isn't really a line by line break down. The key is to understand the reason the threat/potential attacker is engaging, and remove that reason if you're not able to remove yourself from the equation. It's fluid though, and that's part of the value.

    So for example you might have a few people and pretend you're in a bar. One guy is the chosen threat, and the others are his friends. The "threat" has before hand been given a reason to act. Maybe his goal is to impress his friends...to gain status in their eyes. So he starts out with something like "what are you looking at", "what's your problem", etc. There are a variety of ways you can go from there...the easiest of which may be something like, "I'm sorry man, I didn't mean to stare...I was just spacing out." Then the threat can decide if he achieved his goal...as coming across as the tough guy. If he feels he did, that you backed down in the eyes of his buddies...then it's over. If he doesn't, then he continues..."well you were staring bad man". And it goes on from there.

    Basically, you do what you can to remove the need for the threat to continue. Sometimes it works and it's over. Sometimes it doesn't work and it goes physical. As the defender, you don't know how it's going to go down.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 3, 2012
  8. aikiwolfie

    aikiwolfie ... Supporter

    In my experience if you grace a comment like that with any response you're inviting further conflict and should be prepared for a fight.
     
  9. aikiMac

    aikiMac aikido + boxing = very good Moderator Supporter

    How about this one?

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVOtlCnm3t0&feature=related"]***[Steven Seagal - The Path Beyond Thought]*** Documentary (2001) - YouTube[/ame]

    I'm sure that I'm a better actor than he is, and my tummy is smaller than his, but come on, that's good aikido.
     
  10. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Sounds like a lift from one of rory millers books.

     
  11. FunctionalSD

    FunctionalSD Valued Member

    It is very much from Rory's material. I've read his books, been to one of his seminars, and correspond with him from time to time. My pre-conflict material has been influenced by him a lot.

    Seagal's aikido does look far more effective than the majority I've seen and been exposed to.

    EDIT: Keep in mind guys, my point is that the way Aikido is most commonly taught is not functional for self defense. Seagal for example teaches and trains aikido in a way that's significantly different from how it's commonly done in my experience. His style is far more aggressive, direct, and with smaller circles. That's exactly what I've been advocating here all along. My video may not be the best example due to the issues with my partner having not practiced aikido...but those are the points I'm making. If you read the text on my site, it's not all that different from what you see in the Seagal video. His students talk about training HARD against uncooperative opponents...exactly what I've been saying here.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2012
  12. Sore Knees

    Sore Knees Valued Member

    agreed. it's either 'go away' looking confident or nothing. if you act super passive most aggro retards will see it as an invitation to bully a weaker person and will pursue it for whatever warped reason they had for making the first step.

    i'm not a big guy so get this stuff more than big guys. there have been many situations where i've been alone minding my own business maybe waiting for a friend to arrive and some nut case has initiated a conflict to impress his fool pals. best to act like you simply don't care and smile. or if you know he is going to really start; a simple'go away' like you mean it is plenty.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 5, 2012
  13. jorvik

    jorvik Valued Member

    Problem with Seagal is he is just so dam big, and latterly fat, that he lacks credibility. Half the time when he is showing his technique he looks like he is beating up a gang of schoolkids. The people he demonstrates on would never be a threat in real life
     
  14. LeaFirebender

    LeaFirebender Ice Bear has ninja stars

    How many elevator fights are you planning to be in?
     
  15. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    You could always train for it.

    Sorry out the clouded video, I had a lot of reflection from the window where I was filming.

    Contains profanity.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfDwJXwVk1Y&feature=plcp"]Sim Day 6 Scenario 5 - YouTube[/ame]
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2012
  16. bassai

    bassai onwards and upwards ! Moderator Supporter

    I was just about to post something like That ! ;)
     
  17. embra

    embra Valued Member

    Training for encounters and conflict in tight spaces is always a good idea; be it a lift, pub toilet, narrow alleyway, public train seating, sidewalk blocked by parked cars (legally or illegally.) You can even try the Geoff Thompson fence and see what you can do to make the space advantageous to you.

    Why is this useful?

    1) If might just save your bacon one day.
    2) It does a shedload for developing evasion, timing, positioning, finding holes in the opposition and not exposing your holes. If you develop this in confined space, especially vs. more than one opponent; when you go to the relative comfort of a gym/matted dojo, you begin to realise how much space and time you do have normally and how pampered one is in regular training.
     
  18. aikiMac

    aikiMac aikido + boxing = very good Moderator Supporter

    You're saying heavyweights can't really fight. No.
    Regardless, in "the other half" of the clips his timing and angles and hip movements are impeccable, and its clear from the context that he was doing it all the time. He was seriously good back when those clips were made.
     
  19. jorvik

    jorvik Valued Member

    I didn't say that he wasn't good
     
  20. Sketco

    Sketco Banned Banned

    Dear god in heaven not the bacon! :cry:
     

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