Ninjukai Taijitsu - An Insiders Perspective

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu' started by nostromogremlin, Apr 10, 2009.

  1. I posted all this on the end of another long thread but realise it will probably get lost there and newbies may not find it easily. If you think I'm incorrect and a moderator please feel free to delete this post.

    John Ang as a Shihan is a fake and so is his art.

    How do I know? I was one of his original students back in 1989. John initially started a Jui-Jitsu school in Perth but couldn't compete with Jan De Jong (deceased some time now but a truly nice gentleman) who had the art sewn up in Perth. So as ninja's were popular then he started this rubbish.

    I trained for three years with John and attained brown belt and was studying for black when I came to my senses. One evening during a black-tip class doing sword training John was going through feints with a sword and was literally just waving it in the air...it didn't make sense and when I started questioning him regarding this he got very nasty and started insulting me. I realised at that point that he couldn't explain it as he didn't actually know it himself. I left at that point and with open eyes started thinking through some of the practics that went on there.

    1. The syllabus is set and well known now but as I was in the senior group (who all left around the same time) we used to have to wait for months before John would give us a new syllabus for the next level...because, and he admitted this, he was writing them on a needs basis himself. There was no syllabus from past masters being handed down...just hime making it up as he went along.

    2. Okinawan weapons such as Tonfa and Sai in a Japanese art...? I don't think so.

    3. PLagarised syllabus...A few years later I read a book called Judo - My Way (grappling) and in it found passages that seemed remarkably similar to Ninjukai's grappling syllabus. I checked and they were exactly the same! I have also found the Manriki-gusari syllabus in a book and the descriptions of the ranks used in Ninjukai are lifted directly from a Stephen Hayes book I have called 'The Ninja and their secret fighting art".

    4. The syllabus is actually Jui-Jitsu with some extra weapons. As he was a Jui-Jitsu instructor it's not surprising.

    5. In 1992 the senior students were starting to question his legitimacy based on the above and other things that were going on. So he went on a trip to Singapore and Malaysia and photographed himself in front of temples in his Gi and came back, showed the photos to us and claimed that proved he was legitimate...laughable pathetic attempt really.

    6. He always claimed that there were schools in Singapore but I've been there and so have others and tried to find these...but they don't exist.

    7. A martial arts store in Perth owned by a very nice fellow once confided in me that John, when setting up had gone to him and purchased a 1970's book about running your own fake Kung-fu school. It is a tongue in cheek book written after the Bruce Lee inspired kung-fu boom but it works apparently. I have seen it on google but can't remember the details. It apparently listed the 20 things you must do to be successful. I'll list a few... you must be at least a 6th Dan (as John is), never train with your students and claim that the art doesn't allow it at your rank, (john never trains at all...period), claim legitimacy from a far off country that no-one can ever check on (john does), make it as expensive as possible so you make your money fast (see next point).

    8. John has set it up in a way so as to maximize his personal revenue. Hence the shopfront counter in the dojo where students buy the gear from. The hachimaki (headbands) were something he came up with about two years after I got there and claimed that was what the art demanded...we'd never heard of this as he'd never mentioned it before...of course the only person you can buy them from is John who has these especially made...also they're in different colours for the various ranks so you have to buy a new one regularly as you move up the ranks.

    9. When setting up he made the martial art store in question import as many coloured belts as he could so that again you have to buy a new one each time your are graded....and guess who you get them from...? The same goes for all the weapons..it's all about him selling them to you.

    10. That martial arts store owner is a very highly ranked Iaido practitioner and John wanted him to come on board and be his weapons instructor..due to the fellow's personal integrity he turned John down.

    11. Some of you may have read of or hear stories that John and his students were patrolling trains etc etc....all complete rubbish. The photographer for the newspaper that printed that was a student as well and a friend of mine..whilst it made the papers and tv news it never actually occured. It was all publicity to get students in. John is very good a self publicity.

    12. On the grading certificates was a signature that was allegedly from the secretary in Singapore...these certificates would take ages to arrive...but we were all suspicious because the handwriting was exactly the same as his partner at the time who he lived with...I spoke to her son about it after they split up and he confirmed that his mother and he were always in on it.

    13. We orginal students were all self-taught students...sounds strange doesn't it. Let me explain. John would give us the syllabus but then say under the rules of the art he wasn't allowed to demonstrate. So we had to interpret it ourselves!!! We would get him to watch and he would never correct us but would say that was correct...but on technical questions he always spaced out...Student now don't have this issue as we established it all and passed on what we had learnt.

    14. After I left I learnt that he had told all the students that I was expelled for betraying the art. He did this to people I know who left before me as well. It was one of the instructions in that 1970's book - discredit former student so no-one believes what they say. I had never said a word against him. I just stopped going and started training with a different club. He found this out and immediately started these rumours.


    and just for the hell of it I checked his website and found me in a photo..

    http://www.ninjukai.com.au/Images/articles/news05.jpg

    That's me sitting on the floor overseeing proceedings. Unfortunately I was the most senior instructor around that day so I ran these people through a basic lesson. No we didn't wear masks during training, that was just for the photos. There isn't many photos of me thanks heavens as I generally avoided all the publicity stuff.

    The greenies in question had one lesson and never came back. All publicity again.

    Now just to add some credibility to my posts for those actual or potential ninjukai students who may doubt my story. If I recall correctly that's the blue belt syllabus on the wall on the right side of the photo. The photographer Richard Hatherley was my fellow student so used to get all these things done. Richard completed his red belt and left due to work and family commitments.

    The female in these photo's is Jo Cann http://www.ninjukai.com.au/articles/...society/3.html she got to black tip and was actually working there at the dojo on a pittance salary. Then one day she heard John slagging her off to another instructor and she also came to her senses and left...and was discredited.

    This is her again in this photo http://www.ninjukai.com.au/articles/...society/4.html taken at Woodmans Point camp in the early years...the other fellow is Rob Weymouth who left after attaining his blue belt.

    Further all the rubbish about ninjukai focussing on the early years of the ninja is just more claptrap. John invented this additional history a few years after I had left. We never heard any of this from him. I think he realised he was losing credibility and so came up with this bit to explain why his syllabus was so different to other styles. I remember laughing out loud about it the first time someone told me about it. Just another in a long line of cons.

    It's a pity but I threw out my syllabus a couple of years ago and the original pamphlet John used to give out which was white with blue writing showing him in a white gi and purporting to be a Ju-Jitsu school/instructor.

    Paul or Yari can confirm the above facts for them if they wish...although bear in mind they are still in denial about the whole thing.

    John is very clever and knows every way to wrangle money out of people imaginable. He is also great at rationalising away any criticism or query students may have. Hence changing his story regading the history of Ninjukai to quite nicely deflect people. I've read other threads and it's amazing how many ninjukai students believe that their art is the original unwatered down ninja art now. That history never existed when I was there at all. Subsequently they have now the perfect defense to any criticism about legitimacy. He's a clever fellow.

    He's also unscrupulous in business and his aim is to maximize money. I believe there is only one of his dojo's left but for a while there 6 were going. He franchised them out to students and then ripped them off by collecting something like 90% of their fees for himself. I used to help collect them for him before I wised up. He would also allow them to sell only equipment that they had bought from him for retail value. So imagine he would buy a sword from a store like Giri for $150 wholsesale, sell it to a franchisor for $180 and then that person to make any money had to try and sell for $200. The students weren't dumb and would just go to Giri and buy for $150.

    I remember once he asked a supplier to give him a cost on 100 swords. The supplier gave him a quote at a really good price and John said to go ahead. So the supplier ordered them and when he tried to deliver them John said he would buy but only wanted two or three at a time. So the supplier was left holding all this inventory and it nearly sent him broke. I spoke to him some years later and he still had over 70 of those swords still in stock.

    I joined as a member in the 300's when he was still in the old perth dojo near the Perth mint. I helped him move to the Wickham St Dojo. That was in 1990. At the time I joined the yellow, orange, green and blue syllabus was already known and I was taught by other instructors who all dropped out. I'm sure he probably showed them that stuff himself as that is actually ju-jitsu. Paul Reed was in the group ahead of me (about 7 guys) and was one of my instructors.

    By the time I was training for blue belt I was in the most senior group and went through blue, red, purple, brown and started black with them all including Paul. These are the syllabuses he was making up. Red was very frustrating...it took about 3 months after the blue grading to get it off him. It came piecemeal and was all hand-written notes. I think we got the multiple kicks stuff first. Then he'd hand out a bit more a month later and this went on and on. Red included the grappling syllabus I think...or was that purple. He could show stuff here like how to do a certain hold but that was about it. He would show if you pressed him. He could basically show chokes, holds and throws only...all Ju-jitsu stuff. Anything else he was lost with.

    Why one strike in Japanese and not the others. You know I never thought about that before. He probably doesn't speak Japanese would be the explanation. I am aware that he got all the sword syllabuses from books. He has a massive library at his home in Mullaloo. I never saw it but my ex-wife did. He bought every sword book he could get his hands on from Giri Martial Arts and ordered them in from overseas.

    Ahn, I think you're referring to started the Fremantle dojo and quickly went broke. He's a nice guy and made the punching bags that were in the place in the early 90's. Probably fallen apart by now though. Ahn was red belt last time I saw him. I don't remember anyone big called Michael...but then I left in 93 and there has been a lot of people through since then.

    I actually used to like the sword. It was my favourite weapon and I still practice now. I started the black syllabus which had katana and wakizashi at the same time. If I recall it was the brown syllabus that had 'The adventures of Yo*****one' where you imagine you are being attacked by a tengu and had to do 50 strikes and blocks or something. All laughable now really but good fun at the time.

    It was stuff like this that we had to learn ourselves and experiment with as John couldn't show anyone this stuff. He just didn't know it. There is talk on other threads of how he trains with the senior belts, but he doesn't. All hype again.

    I'll just add to that the instructors present at any time are also a big influence. I know when I was teaching we were doing it from the point of view that it wasn't all about strength but other factors like leverage and speed too. One of my former students, Yari, came along and changed it based on his physical stature. Being a short, powerful, stocky guy he found things like throws easier than most people and subsequently never learnt and can't teach the fine points to skinny kids who just don't have his strength.

    So there you go...there's just some of the stuff. Of course John will never admit to any of this...why would he, he's taking money hand over fist from people who get sucked in by it all...

    On the positives I did a lot of good training there and met lots of friends and I believe I got quite good at what I was doing. I was a police officer for a number of years and never once lost a fight and regularly used the techniques I learnt from Ninjukai.

    I have studied Bujinkan with Gary Bailey in Perth and Lindsay (can't remember his surname) and wow what a difference...I really had trouble grasping the lack of a syllabus and the casual attitude towards whether or not one existed but it all started clicking into place after about six months training and I found myself just flowing along without thinking about what I was doing. Love it and I'm heading back to Bujinkan here in Canberra...I've had a break for a few years due to study commitments.

    Anyway I hope potential student of John read this and snap to their senses and go see Gary Bailey instead.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 11, 2009
  2. ninjaboy

    ninjaboy Valued Member

    Nostromogremlin , it was Lindsay Hawke . Where you ever at the north perth hall with lindsay and gary ? I was there occasionally , when I had noone to train with in inglewood . I hope you are getting in touch with Rick Owens in canberra , if you need his contact info , go to komichi dojo`s website and you will find it , gregh
     
  3. bujingodai

    bujingodai Retired Supporter

    Nostro thank you for the detailed warning. It was full of facts and so on and not based on slagging someone. Refreshing

    Oh well, Caveat Emptor. (think I spelled that right)
     
  4. kouryuu

    kouryuu Kouryuu

    So now we've got that out of the way can we begin slagging him off then?????:):):):):evil::evil::evil:
     

  5. That's him. Those guys were full on and I experienced a bit of pain a few times :) they liked you to experience it for real at least once.

    Yes I went to the north perh hall and then to the one on scarborough beach rd. I stopped in 2000 as I was going through a marriage breakup and was trying to hurt people. Best to stop training when you feel that way.

    Then I started stuydy so haven't been back for a while. Got two little daughter now so its still difficult but the minister for war and finance has conceded that I need my martial arts fix.

    I remember a big fella that used to come along from Inglewood. Is that you?
     
  6. additonal...on the other thread someone asked about the World Ninja Society.

    On their website you'll find references to the "World Ninja Society" and the "Australian Ninkuai Association" blah blah...

    The only members of these were his actual students. I worked there part time for about 2 years helping out and never saw any correspondence from anyone outside of the dojo itself relating to these.

    He is quick to claim that they are non-profits organisations and I could never figure out why they even existed...what was the point?

    There is always the answer that it made him look more legit to potential students but I have always suspected there was more to it than that.

    Now you have to remember that he is a trained lawyer and is all about maximizing personal income...that includes minimizing tax. I strongly suspect that the only reason these two orgs exist is for tax avoidance/minimization purposes. Not being an accountant I don't fully understand it all. Maybe someone can explain how that may work for me. eg channel funds through their bank accounts and take the money off-shore to Malaysia to avoid Australian tax. This was if it all goes to merde then he casn just do a runner without worry about his money.

    I know no-one who works there is paid legitimately. It is all cash in hand with no tax records that he can be questioned over.

    I read in another thread that someone said his wasn't a commercially focussed setup. Well, not through want of trying. Read my above post about his 6 dojo's and ripping off franchisers. He was going to expand to the east coast of Australia as he was getting lots of publicity at the time, but all the senior belts deserted him around the same time I did and he had no-one to expand with.
     
  7. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    Have you told John Ang about this thread?

    Would be interesting to hear his side of the story.
     
  8. Devil Hanzo

    Devil Hanzo Doesn't tap to heel-hooks

    People like him don't tend to reply to posts like these.

    They tend to sue.
     
  9. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    Probably for good reason.

    Does the OP intend to tell John Ang about this thread and give the man a chance to answer his accusers?
     
  10. ninjaboy

    ninjaboy Valued Member

    If he had black hair and a beard and was six foot two , then it was me , and I also remember seeing you once at scarborough , if you are the guy I remember , when I dropped into gary`s dojo at the scout hall . Small world eh ? gregh :cool:
     
  11. Ace of Clubs

    Ace of Clubs Banned Banned

    He doesnt need to, i already knew John Ang was a liar and a fraud.

    To the OP thanks for posting this. Im glad someone from the inside was able to tell their story.
     
  12. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    You and the OP saying that John Ang is a fraud does not automatically mean it is true.

    In any civilised society the accused should be given a fair opportunity to defend him or herself. And this is why I ask the OP again - do you intend to inform John Ang about this thread?
     
  13. Ur Anaite

    Ur Anaite tabi cos only 2 toes

    John Ang does not acknowledge anyone over the internet. He is free to attend this forum, and if you are concerned that he is being mis-represented send him an email at the address provided on the website. You won't receive a response.



    What is he going to say? "Thats all lies, nostrogremlin is an ex-student who is just trying to spread bad things about me. He was a bad student anyway and never did what I told him."

    Nostro's story matches the situation when I also trained there, and the other thread on ninjukai has other previous students who finally did their research, and have similar experiences.

    The fremantle dojo was shut down because it couldn't pay its rent. It had 4 senior students, 20 students and usually 5 new ones. (they turned over like most newbies do.) Oh and a class of 20 kids. If a dojo with 40 heads of income can't stay afloat... well, it can, unless it is being ripped off.
     
  14. hatsie

    hatsie Active Member Supporter

    So these guys don 't patrol the streets and trains like the American guardian angels? Is that a completely fabricated story? Surely the student that wrote the article(if I got that right) must know it's all bs then, it's a good con job then, I believed it.
    I was going to look them up but I trained with Gary instead, nice guy but full on, he hammered me

    Daz
     
  15. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    Superfoot would you feel the same way if Ashida Kim were the subject of the thread ?
     
  16. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    Yes. Anyone who is accused of any wrongdoing should be given the opportunity to answer.

    Though I think with Ashida Kim he has responded in the past and the accusations proved true. But my point there would be that Kim was told of the accusations.

    I think the OP should do the same here. At the moment there is no objective evidence to support the OP's claims. Lack of objective evidence amounts to nothing more than trolling.

    I only say this because I used to regularly go on the witch hunt for frauds without giving the people I accused the chance to answer. Turned out some of them were genuine, which I would've discovered if I'd spoken to them first.

    Just trying to keep the playing field fair.
     
  17. Ur Anaite

    Ur Anaite tabi cos only 2 toes

    I am not quite sure what patrolling the trains entailed to be precise. I used to walk to training in my uniform, not because I was told to but because I liked wearing it. One day the police stopped me and said that I really should hide the sword in a bag rather than wearing it on my belt because people didn't like seeing it. - why didn't my instructor tell me this? - (I did not think i was on patrol, for the record!)

    Hey anyone can catch a train in a ninja get up if they want. People do from other martial arts aswell. My current sensei got on a bus and there was a bloke in ninja get up on it. (mask and everything.) He leaned across to my instructor to say "im a Ninja." Did he think he was on patrol keeping public services safe?

    According to interview with Ang the police told him to cut it out aswell. "Oi John, stop getting your goons on the trains and claiming your keeping it safe, if your starting a new gang there is going to be trouble."

    The comment in speech marks is not an actual quote and is intended for comedic purposes only.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2009
  18. letemlaf

    letemlaf New Member

    nostromogremlin, Are your initials M.W. by any chance?
    I used to train there a number of years after you left, and if your who I think you are, I was told you only left because you went to work over east :)

    When I started out I got caught up in all the hype of clever marketing and eventually made it to blue belt before I realised it was all a sham.
    I stayed until well into purple belt because dispite it not being a ninja art at all, it was a very rounded art which I guess evolved over the years to be what it was when I joined.
    In saying that, I found that I became a jack of all trades but a master of none.
     
  19. 2E0WHN

    2E0WHN Valued Member

    The only thing you will get from Ang is a student like ToShinDope4Ever who comes on extols the virtues of said instructor/system and will be the one going round trying to prove his art is legitimate. If it is a real ninja art then there will be a record in Japan of the system. If it cam from China through Taiwan as is claimed, there will be a paper trail in those countries as to the system and the lineage of it's history.

    I bet you that there is no history, lineage or paper trail in any of these countries. In fact I an willing to bet there is no real evidence relating Ang to his historical claims at all. We could have people in Taiwan do research as well as China and Japan. There will be no trail, no history and certainly no evidence that can be provided as true under a court of law in any country named.

    This is why we get fakes like Kim, Ang, Dux and so on. People believed Dux until the internet grew and we got information. It proved the secret Kumite fights were false. There was no paper trail, no physical trail and certainly no evidence linking Dux to anything that his book offered which spawned the film "Bloodsport". We can disprove a lot using the internet, flat footing to get historical information and having that stand as correct.

    If Ang does come on here he will have to prove and will gain nothing. So he will just keep quiet and tell his students to ignore the lies on MAP (As did Bryce Dallas did when E Budo was told of the goings on with the Konnigun ninjutsu in 2006). You be surprised how much control these people have when it comes to frauds like this. So much control in fact that you may as well say it's cult.

    So do not hold your breath as to a decent reply from the man himself.
     
  20. Aegis

    Aegis River Guardian Admin Supporter

    Well, I woke up to a nice legal threat about supposed slander this morning, so thank you very much to whoever decided to point this thread out to the organisation in question. I appreciate that it's nice to hear opposing views, but if someone is inclined to come straight to the admin team with a demand to remove defamatory posts, I'd rather that you didn't stir the pot like that.

    I strongly suggest that anyone posting in this thread so far checks their facts and ensures that anything they've stated matches the definition of "fair comment" as it applies to defamation law, as I suspect that this thread is going to be looked over with a fine-toothed comb. If you're sure of your comments and your factual claims, then you should be fine, if not I think rewording or removing claims might be in order.

    Please don't create extra work for me like this again, whoever did it, especially if you're going to use an email that suggests some sort of actual authority on the subject of laws.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2009

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