MANTIS Child Protector

Discussion in 'Self Defence' started by rne02, Nov 4, 2015.

  1. bassai

    bassai onwards and upwards ! Moderator Supporter

    You had a hissy fit about MAP not responding earlier , can you answer my question please ?
     
  2. bassai

    bassai onwards and upwards ! Moderator Supporter

    Nope , it's nikyo , a lock , so you're either lying or don't know what you're talking about.
     
  3. bassai

    bassai onwards and upwards ! Moderator Supporter

    For reference this is the Aikido version
    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0yhe3nyJrk"]aikido instruction: katate dori gyaku hanmi, nikkyo ura waza, kihon. - YouTube[/ame]
     
  4. CPMANTIS

    CPMANTIS Valued Member

    Ok Mark, a child cant apply it as a lock on someone bigger, they don't have the ability, the strength or the leverage from a lower stand point. However by taking the other hand and clamping their forarm applying an isometric/ elastc type spring strength using their back, waist obviously they shoot over the top and create a release in a large circular movent. That's the technique.
     
  5. bassai

    bassai onwards and upwards ! Moderator Supporter

    So you're taking a fairly poor technique and making bit worse ?
    And can you answer my question about how many of your "team" teach on a regular basis please ?
     
  6. CPMANTIS

    CPMANTIS Valued Member

    Sorry Bassai, yes we teach. Mostly at other academies. giving seminars and training sessions. Booked each weekend until March. Is that ok.
     
  7. CPMANTIS

    CPMANTIS Valued Member

    Obviously, that was our aim to take a poor technique and make it worse. Then try and apply it to seasoned martial arts schools that the see its useless ness to only then be friend us and then leap on board. Wow we must be that good
     
  8. bassai

    bassai onwards and upwards ! Moderator Supporter

    Anywhere near Brum I could come to ?
     
  9. bassai

    bassai onwards and upwards ! Moderator Supporter

    I can (and have) stop an adult from applying that technique on me , I genuinely doubt a kid could do it.
     
  10. CPMANTIS

    CPMANTIS Valued Member

    We can certainly arrange it, by all means. I welcome it. I really mean that in the most positive way. I was there twice before the break with Global Defence solutions. I will be there again. Also we all pass through a lot to wales. We are heading back there for two days to Cardif.
     
  11. HairoNoSora

    HairoNoSora Valued Member

    All this marketing spin is giving me a headache...

    Cpmantis, have you considered running for politics?
     
  12. CPMANTIS

    CPMANTIS Valued Member

    you can counter most techniques when you know what your doing. Fortunately most are unexpecting of it. Our smallest board member can release from the biggest strongest opponent. I assure you.
    You can doubt it, that's fine but using general logic would the clubs join, would they keep joining if the techniques were crap. They are slightly different and the method of teaching them is very specific, very important.
     
  13. CPMANTIS

    CPMANTIS Valued Member

    haironosora, I too have a head ache. the politics in martial arts is enough for me.
     
  14. bassai

    bassai onwards and upwards ! Moderator Supporter

    Cool , got a link ? as there's no record on google and they're not listed on your site.
     
  15. CPMANTIS

    CPMANTIS Valued Member

    probably under UK self defence solutions, Martin Brown. They've recently gone to Global I'm also meeting Jason Burnett (krav) in Cardiff on the 8th and 9th and have to go right round Brom. Theres a lot more clubs to go up. We are constantly adding. Every club we visit and teach.
    Mark, I do have a headache with all this, it is boxing day I have to get off. but I welcome meeting you and am happy to arrange, thank you. Just request through the site. I hope you have a good evening.
     
  16. bassai

    bassai onwards and upwards ! Moderator Supporter

    Fair enough
     
  17. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    I could well have missed it but are there any clips of adults training these techniques?
     
  18. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    You put up a video that was fake footage of an attempted child abduction jazzed up to look as if it was real CCTV footage in an attempt to market your product.
    Your definition of fear mongering must be different to mine because that qualifies as manipulative fear mongering to me.

    My issue isn't with the techniques per se. Clearly a person/child can move in such a way as to make themselves harder to hold onto. Moving against weak areas of a grip, twisting one way rather than another, finding leverage positions, etc. I think such things can even be useful even for children against adults (with appropriate expectations of success). As mentioned we did very similar things in Hapkido and I value the ability to strip grips and control positions if needed.

    My issues are threefold.

    One...I don't think child abduction by adults is that big enough of a problem to form a training paradigm around. You could offer the best training for that scenario there is and yet it'd still be largely pointless because what it's training for just doesn't happen that often. There are more important issues to address if child safety is the driving consideration IMHO.

    Two...you use this very rare but horrifying thing (adult child abduction) to market what you do to parents (you aren't marketing this directly to kids with your fake CCTV footage). Playing on a parents natural fear of something like that happening. Again I think at the expense of offering much more useful information about what is a danger to children.

    Three...there's a very strong vibe you're doing this for money (increasing child student numbers in martial arts schools, franchising this to schools, etc). While that's not a problem per se it is adding a bad taste when combined with my previous two issues.

    Would you have taken down the abduction video because "it doesn't represent you" if it hadn't got such a bad reaction from people like us?
    Because you seemed perfectly happy for it to represent you before we commented on it. It didn't just fall on to Youtube by accident.
    It was clearly a wrong move marketing wise that you are now trying to distance yourself from. But at some point you thought it was just fine.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2015
  19. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    On top of that you can stop with the "but why would it be junk if so many people/clubs have jumped on board."

    Firstly many martial arts clubs will jump at anything they think can improve their exposure, revenue, or marketability. Plenty of people flock to fraudulent systems and instructors so that has no bearing whatsoever on how good or how functional your system is. The analysis of people skilled in such matters as you have found here, does.

    Secondly there are three kinds of social evidence in order of value:
    1. As shown
    2. As said by others
    3. As said by the person/organization

    You have failed miserably in the first as judged by skilled and experienced eyes so continually trying the third is pointless.
     
  20. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    This thread is just sad at this point.
     

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