Not to disregard to you or anything like that, but I'd like to clarify the following: Master Lee did not leave Kuk Sool nor he wants to leave and he does not want to follow the franchise path. Houston removed his picture as a direct result of his letter and the letter does not say that he is resigning from Kuk Sool. I'd like to add that the letter has been made public so there is no speculation about his position, he will continue training in Kuk Sool and teaching to who wants to learn. Thanks Onatop
Are you a politician? This is your post dated March 8, 2009. I'm sorry but I'm confused did you just say that Master Lee didn't leave WKSA. Whats up with that?
That comment is a mistake on my part and take full responsibility for it. I also apologize for the confusion. However Master Lee did not leave Kuk Sool nor he wants to leave. Houston removed his picture. Thanks Onatop
Maby this will help..... It's a common beleif in the Korean culture that it is better to be asked to leave, (kicked out) than to quit. It does not matter that not doing as asked caused the action, it is who made the seperation official. Master Lee Simply said he would not be a part of the franchise....it is up to GM Suh to oust him. I Know some can,t or wont see any dif. But to some it makes one of the parties worse / more respnsible for the split.
Cultural differences It irritated the crap out of me on at least a couple of occasions when I invited Master Kim to my house to eat and, having accepted the invitation, he then didn't come. He apologised afterwards, of course. Apparently, in Korean culture (and please correct me if this is not the case), it would have been seen as an insult for him to reject my invitation, but it was seen as perfectly ok for my (then) wife to prepare meals especially for him, only for him not to show up. Not only that, but not even phone on the day to say he wasn't coming.
unknownKJN, thanks for keeping people in line so they understand where to post their comments. miyu, of course I checked and noticed that his picture was removed. Reading this letter “over and over” like onatop suggested doesn’t change anything, it says what it says. In general, showing a letter, any letter from anybody in 3 or 15 different languages with a signature, authentic or not doesn’t mean anything. Paper is patient, it still could have been fabricated just like when people say”Master X told me once…..” or “I know this Master for X# of years….” and things like that. I was cautious because of comments made by onatop about Master Lee in previous posts that didn’t add up and he was called on it and again yesterday by Obewan. There is nothing wrong with being cautious. When it comes to embarrassing Kuk Sa Nim, the situation in general with the WKSA is, in my opinion, somewhat embarrassing. Masters are leaving right and left, schools are separating themselves from the WKSA and it seems the Association is slowly falling apart no matter what the individual’s reasons are. To make a letter like that public, on purpose, and at the same time insult In Sun Seo does not make sense to me. (Yes, I understand, he has his reasons.) KSstudent made a good comment in post #784 and by removing Master Lee’s picture from the site, Kuk Sa Nim might have made his decision. In general, Koreans just like Europeans are far more outspoken than Americans, nothing to be “brave” about. It’s just surprising that Master Lee actually wanted this out in the open. What are the motives? Obviously he does not care about this franchise deal just like pretty much everybody else. In his letter he told Kuk Sa Nim how he feels and maybe this is his way of telling the rest of the KSW community “look everybody, I’m telling Kuk Sa Nim what I think about this, I like to stay part of Kuk Sool, the Association, but I don’t want the franchise”, and hopes others will follow his lead to go back to the way things used to be. (It's just a thought.) Unjee
franchise and master Lee's letter Master Lee's agenda is to start his OWN organization and recruit as many people as possible to join him. His statement that "...the tradition will become nothing more than a business." is false and misleading. I suppose with his own new organization he will not charge membership fees or fees for teaching his students. Ha Ha Ha Ha. Anyone who charges money for teaching martial arts ( Eung Koo Lee ) is in business. There's no reason you can't make a living and STILL preserve the martial art values. The purpose of the franchise agreement is to further protect school owners. If master Lee or anyone else doesn't want to sign , it's their perrogative. They simply can't use the name "KUK SOOL WON" or the patch and logo. Someone stated that instructors are "leaving left and right ". That's not true. A few, like master Lee , decided to go it alone with their own thing. One look at the Kuk Sool Won website's school listing and you will see that most schools are staying. By the end of November , all this business will be done. Those that want to stay will-and those that want to go will in fact- be gone. Just because an instructor decides to leave the association doesn't mean their students want to do so. The students are free to sign up at any official Kuk Sool Won school. In addition, once you leave the association, any licensed Kuk Sool Won instructor is then free to open a school right next door to you if they so desire. The temple door opens one way. If you leave, you can't come back. Also signing or not signing is not a one way deal. Some folks may be told that they are not ALLOWED to sign the new agreement ( those that have already not lived up to the requirements of the original license agreement ). Anyone that believes the Kuk Sool Won association is "falling apart" is wrong or maybe just "wishfully thinking". As for unknown kwanjahng nym ( Dickson Kunz ) keeping everyone straight-Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha.
Dragonkarma, Why do you use a persons "name" in your responce ? Even if your GUESS is correct I feel this is in bad taste! Thank you.
just a few questions Man! you are really good! how can you manage to read other people's mind and have thoughts on you own?? Have you talked to Master Lee to know his "agenda"?? if so, why you did not tell his plans in advance... bad boy! :evil: And what do you know about tradition? are you aware that there are other people in the world (far beyond the boundaries of your small, very small world) that believe and follow traditions of thousand of years. Dragonkarma, you should try to be a little less vehement defening WKSA, nobody is trying to destroy your so beloved organization...
Is his guess correct? I've had my suspecions(sp) for some time now. Although if it is him then why the autonymity(sp)? He has already left the WKSA, yes. Sorry for the spelling don't have time to spell check right now. Regards
"Is it O.K. with Master Lee to embarrass Kuk Sa Nim by separating himself from his Association after all these years and tell everybody about it? Also, why would he mention the incident with In Sun Seo and publicly announce that “he continues to dishonor and disrupt the Martial Arts Society with his actions and his new organization”." maybe more people should go public with their dealings with him. in my small world ive never heard positive....on the contrary...
I think this was probably a private letter from Master Lee to Kuk Sa Nim that his student somehow got a hold of and decided to publicize . By his own admittance of it being a "mistake" brings to mind that he was most likely reprimanded for this breach. Anyway, what does it matter? A person decides to go his own way, which contrary to DragonKarma's assurance that it's not happening, seems to be an ongoing event in the wksa soap opera. I looked at the seminar schedule and my first thought was WOW, that schedule used to be about 2 full pages long, now it appears to be maybe 3/4 of page long. Somewhere there seems to be a lot of schools missing from that list. That is sad for the wksa, because as I have said in the past, the wksa has a wonderful idea and an unsurpassed curriculum. It is just sad to see the politics and money fever destroying the organization.
I attended one of the more renowned schools in the Houston metropolitan area back around 2000 - 2001; subsequently, I left as a yellow belt, and picked up my training elsewhere (KSW). As time went on I felt / realized there was an element of cult-like fanaticism associated with the practice of Kuk Sool Won. Many traits within KSW can be identified as that of a cult. I’ve often wondered if others felt the same as I. After reading several of the MAP forums, the question I’ve pondered has been answered. There’s a monumental difference between respect and worship. It’s my impression many of the hierarchy within the Won may very well thrive on being “worshipped“. Narcissism within the hierarchy can manifest itself in many different ways. Dragonkarma wrote “The temple door opens one way. If you leave, you can't come back.” One example of many cult-like behaviors… That is to be ousted or shunned from a “recreational” activity. Also Dragonkarma, reference your veiled threat of opening schools next to schools who have left the WON; it’s readily apparent the schools that left did so because they were some of the more successful enterprises, and as such will continue to flourish! p.s. I never did like the taste of Kool-Aide.
If you'll be there inside then I'm sure a lot of people will be clambering to get out and away from such a negative influence such as yourself. :evil: This guess has been made before and is no more accurate than when postulated the first time. If you have sour grapes about being identified just remember it wasn't me that outed you. Although I'm not asking you to be civil because I don't believe you to be capable.
Well, to be fair, he didn't say it was inaccurate, just not more accurate than it was before, which is true, either way.
*** RECENT UPDATE *** I think it's funny that the *powers that be* in the Won feel it's necessary to coddle and lead schoolowners around as if they were infants. The long-awaited event has finally come to pass, and the cover letter explains in detail exactly what all the mind-numbed robots are supposed to do. __________________________ DO sign and return the FDD receipt form ASAP to WKSA HQ (their bold for emphasis, not mine). DO NOT send the signed franchise document (and any pertinent addenda) until after 18 days from the postmark on the package containing these documents. __________________________ Although paraphrased, I think everyone can get the gist of what I mean WRT them being coddled. No doubt, if the papers are sent back too soon, there could be legal repercussions that things weren't done on the up & up, and why the instructions to WAIT a certain length of time (18 days). :dunno:
Well unknown, in all fairness to "the powers that be" in any organization that I've ever been in there needs to be a lot of "hand holding" to keep some from dropping the ball. I'm sure they mean ASAP after 18 days. AFAIK the 18 days is for a chance to review the documents with your legal adviser. I've yet to get the document I was wondering if they give a deadline for getting it in or just the ASAP request?
I was wondering, does this franchise affect every school owner? What about those higher ranks like 6th degree and up. I was told that those that have been “grandfathered in” don’t fall under the same rules. Well, maybe it was meant for something else. OB
