Koyo's Book

Discussion in 'Aikido' started by aikiwolfie, Aug 18, 2009.

  1. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    Since we cannot be certain that a knife MAY be involved..all techniques should be trained as though a weapon is being used.

    A prime example is kote gaeshe where often you shall see the aikidoka making large circular movement and turning the wrist in a large circle. Attempting spinning movement against a knife shall get you cut. Swinging the knife hand up high shall bring the knife close to the eyes/throat.

    Therefor this manner of executing kote gaeshe is WRONG.

    Below the proper triangular entry against a knife and empty hand attack.
    The principles of triangular entry off line along the line of attack are constant.

    Proper understanding of aikido as a self defence art should eliminate many of the rather involved techniques often taught.

    Also the instant it is realised that a weapon is involved ara waza (severe technique) must be used.facing a knife is incredibly dangerous. Attempting to control a knife attack is suicide.

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    Last edited: Jun 26, 2010
  2. boards

    boards Its all in the reflexes!

    Koyo, I hope you thank you photographer alot 'cause you have some awesome photos.
  3. embra

    embra Valued Member

    Were/are the movements of irimi/omote and tenkan/ura in Daito-Ryu Aikijujitsu before Ueshiba's Aikido?

    How did the term Taisabaki (body movement) come into Aikido? - through the koryo sword/stick/spear arts practised by Ueshiba and others? I imagine/antipipate that Taisabaki is/was always part of Japanese weapon arts and has been incorporated into Aikido.

    How can we best summarise Taisabaki in Aiki terms? For me Taisabaki is inseperable from Awase (energy blending.)

    Describing the mechanics of Taisabaki is much more difficult and maybe down to interpretation.
  4. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    Tai sabaki means BODY movement it does not mean foot movement or stances.

    Aikido is a triangular art and the alignment of the hips into kuzushi is a fundamental principle. The HIPS are moved and the feet move naturally beneath them, Since one hip is forward this creates the triangular posture (kamae not stance)

    Below Gerry has thrust with a stick although karateka may see a form of zen kutsu dachi
    the weight is not etended forward but remains in the centre. Similarly Chris entering looks to be in a form of kokutsu dachi (back stance) again this is incorrect his weight remains in his centre. There are NO stances in aikido.

    Indeed there are no stances in any of the Japanese arts at a higher level ALL movement and balance are natural.

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  5. Gripfighter

    Gripfighter Sub Seeker

    are you going to be doing any seminars or the like this year koyo
  6. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    I do not present seminars anymore. Choosing to concentrate on the handfull of students who have been with me ten to fifteen years now.

    I do accept invites to do seminars at interested clubs any arts provided there is no politics involved.
  7. Gripfighter

    Gripfighter Sub Seeker

    people like you should be running the politics mate :p why common sense attitudes like you showed here don't prevail more in martial arts and in life in general is the biggest mystery ever
  8. Judderman

    Judderman 'Ello darlin'

    I can't really comment on the technical aspects of Aikido, other than to say reading this thread has significantly changed my view of the art.

    I'm still digesting other parts of the thread (and smiling about the bottle anecdote), but the two areas that have struck a chord most are "First the eyes" in particular the notion of observing, as this implies close attention and study rather than just looking.

    The other is to disuade your attacker from continued attack, at least that was what I understood by "striking through an opponent's intention to attack." I have a feeling that this is implied physically, but I wonder can it be applied psychologically, more so to the self defence aspect? Employing subtle changes to body language, verbal techniques whilst maintaining the same indominable spirit can and do prevent opponents from attacking. From what I've understood the principles you've stated above would still apply.
  9. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    I began training in aikido late fifties and early sixties at the sae time I was studying judo and shotokan.
    In those days aikido was studied (usually by judoka) as a purely self defence art because of the VERY effective self defence techniques. So I understand your thoughts on aikido as MANY teach it today.

    Street fighters tend to sense who they may attack easily and most of the time do NOT want to "fight" rather to intimidate and bully before an attack. The fact is that you are NOT easily intimidated, down to the fact that you (should) have been beasted and toughened up by serious hard training.They can sense this,

    In my case I received excellent very hard training from many of the original shihan and tend to think "what can this guy bring that I have not already been through?" Even without speaking this tends to cause pause in others.

    Maai is mutual distance where we could BOTH strike each other therefore fighting should be done in ma that is distances that are just out of reach or very close.Any verbal should be just out of reach and if he attempts to close this the fightis on. In fact I would not use the word fight. My ONLY thought is out and out attack.

    In my mind there is nothing other than the intent to strike into the first opening physical or verbal that I see or sense ICHI GAN. Circumstance shall dictate if I attack or not.

    I have found that if I offer no "obvious" threat or instult I can avoid conflict.

    The ability to explode into 100% all out attack without fear is an advanced principle and will be used when it is obvious that a serious attack is imminent or possible from the attacker.

    Below getting beasted by Chiba shihan. Second photo all out attack.Cross training should be encouraged so you can see third photo judo uchi gari used here to add effectiveness to a lock.

    The ONLY positive thing about a real fight is that unless they were idiots..the desire to look for another should not exist.

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    Last edited: Aug 10, 2010
  10. Theforgotten

    Theforgotten Drifting Aimlessly

    Master Koyo, it is people like you who make the arts worthwhile. It is a true honor to read the wisdom that you have presented, and I am glad that I have had the privilege to participate with you in this forum :).
  11. fire cobra

    fire cobra Valued Member

    Koyo sensei,

    Your posts are excellent, thank you for the insights into real martial arts training sir.:)
  12. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    Mythanks for your kind words BUT I am uncomfortable with terms like sensei,master or sir which place me in a position above others (which I do not deserve nor wish) and places others in a position below (which they do not deserve or need)

    It is difficult to talk if one is talking down to another.

    I would hope that if anyone finds aomething of value in these posts that they look at them during their own training and TELL me if they found them effective or found something more effective or indeed disagree with what I have written.

    Again my thanks..koyo
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2010
  13. SsangKall

    SsangKall Valued Member

    sir, i have gotten plenty out of your posts, and often reread them to discover more. something about your last post is perplexing me, however: can you clarify the ideal roles of student-->senior student-->teacher?
  14. Theforgotten

    Theforgotten Drifting Aimlessly

    My apologies for using such a term. I am applying many of your insights and they have added a whole other dimension to my training. Thanks for sharing your wisdom, Koyo :).
  15. fire cobra

    fire cobra Valued Member

    Understood sir,thanks again for sharing your valuable and well earned knowledge:)
  16. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    Hi Choleveda

    Sensei means example more so than teacher and that I am comfortable with. However ALL of the shihan I have been instructed by were early examples of the martial arts and they stressed that 90% of what you learned came from understanding the four major principles the first of which is Ichi Gan.

    The "instruction" was ALWAYS guidance and challenge and I was expected to "find the answers" for myself with guidance occasionaly from the shihan.

    Respect MUST be mutual. That in itself causes the BOTH to train harder to be worthy of it.

    The beauty of the martial arts is that no matter how long you train there is always something to learn and you MUST retain your beginner's mind.

    regards koyo
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2010
  17. embra

    embra Valued Member

    I have only made it to the Makotokai once so far (and now I am in France - so its more difficult), but would have to say that koyo is one of the least status conscious folk that I have met for quite a while - so if you ever get up to sunny Glasgow - the Makokai is well worth visiting - wheter you are an Aikidoka or from a different style.

    Although the context of this and other posts from koyo, express Aikido and MA in general with Japanese terminology from time to time, the material presented is applicable to other MA as well.

    I am a bit busy at present, but I will be posting about this soon enough.
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2010
  18. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.


    Multiple attack should be seen as an ambush therefor the intent should be to move off line mount a superior attack to allow escape.

    Do NOT engage multiple attackers. Aikido tai sabaki body alignment and evasion should give you the moment to make an escape.At best you may be capable of unbalancing the first attacker and throwing him toward the other.

    BUT your main concern is to escape.

    I tend to disbelieve the idea that as a martial artist you shall be able to engage multiple opponents and defeat them.

    below training in taisabaki and kuzushi (unbalancing)

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    Last edited: Aug 16, 2010
  19. embra

    embra Valued Member

    Dont get hit, get offline.

    Koyo instructs a lot on this (even here on MAP - as near as you can get to an Aikido class on internet - inter-Tatami?)....

    So do some TaiChiChuan teachers (but not all.)

    Aikidoka may have their differences of interpretation, but the most fundamental elements in Aikido (the principles that Koyo and others express) and the associated body movement/alignment (of self and towards opponent(s)) of triangle, circle and square; are always a worthy point of reference.

    No 1: Make a sharp triangular movement to evade attack and avoid getting hit - it got me out of harm's way 4 weeks ago in Brussels, and 15 months ago out of serious trouble back home in Edinburgh late at night vs one yob and potentially multiple drunken yobs (if not serious attackers) i.e. escape per advice as in koyo's last prev. Probably the most important aspect of Aikido I ever picked up.

    So if Hakimas are taken off in the dojo, you can reallly study whether what is being taught is angular evasion or whirly circles (waste of time stuff.) Essentially this is fairly explicit in Aikido and there is reasonable adoption of this fundamental principle and movement.

    However TaiChiChuan is not so explicit about basic evasion movement and some folk don't consider it essential at all (that I have encountered.) TaiChiChuan has many movements which can all be usefully applied martially (but a lot of folk do TaiChiChuan for 'health' only.) The applications of TaiChiChuan are not dissimilar to Aikido, but are much harder to tie-down in terms of the applied body-mechanics.

    I returned to Aikido partly to re-examine these principles and movements, and hence ask deeper questions to my TaiChiChuan teachers (now at least 7 after 2.8 years - hence the importance of understanding essential principles.)

    Even very experienced teachers/practitioners cannot comfortably answer these questions. Applications would be effective, but descriptions like 'turn into him' somewhat confuse the questions posed.

    Two TaiChiChuan teachers did very recently express to me - when probed during Pushing Hands, that TaichiChuan is all about finding an angle to open up the opponent, and then rotating the opponent - or spiralling the opponent (in relatively 'advanced' execution) out of harm's way.

    Futhermore, one of these teachers expressed that Boxing was all about finding angles.

    In Aikido, basic evasion is executed with Omote/Irimi and maybe more incisive evasion with TaiSabaki movement. In TaiChiChuan these movements are 7 stars step and 9 Palace step respectively.

    I personally try to execute a very sharp Taisabaki/9 Palace step with an immediate attack (as direct as possible towards the attacker's nearest weak point e.g. throat) and defence combo.

    One interesting point that was made in TaiChiChuan recently was that 9 Palace step (or Taisabaki) was more efficient than 7 stars step (or Omote/Irimi) in that for one foot movement combined with body movement takes you straight into attack i.e. 7 stars or omote/irimi requires 2 foot steps - 1 to get offline, and one to enter into the attack, wheras 9 Palace/Taisabaki only requires one foot step to get offline and attack.

    More later, when time and clarity of writing motivation permits.
  20. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.


    Taisabaki means BODY movement/alignment ..not foot movement. We are taught NEVER to move one foot at a time as in walking or striding.

    The HIP moves and the feet move naturally underneath the hip.My balance remains in my hips not placed onto one foot/step or the other.

    In omote (entry) it can be seen that the right hip has entered triangularly into the kusushi (weak point of balance)

    This also demonstrates escape/defence and attack as one

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    Last edited: Aug 17, 2010

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