Isometric split progression

Discussion in 'Health and Fitness' started by Van Zandt, Sep 25, 2010.

  1. Alienfish360

    Alienfish360 Valued Member

    If that is the correct name for them then, I assume yes.

    Usually photographed with a pretty girl demonstrating it.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    Yes, we're talking about the same thing.

    They're useful to a point, but I have never found one that goes up to 180°. If it did, you could probably skip isometric stretches altogether.

    You will need to stop using them once your range of motion exceeds that of the machine.
     
  3. Alienfish360

    Alienfish360 Valued Member

    Apologies for all the questions :) The more understanding I have, the better I feel I can implement methods.

    For correct form, should feet stay flat on the floor while doing splits as far as possible, or should you keep the ankle straight, and rest on the insteps? (I want to make sure correct form, to minimise my risk of injury)
     
  4. daniel1973

    daniel1973 New Member

    side splits isometric stretches

    Hi,Many thanks for the reply,

    Just to answer your questions,i will try to be as detailed as possible.

    I squat approx 45 kg,s on the days i dont stretch( which has been tuesdays,thursday,saturdays from day 1). i do 3 sets of 12 reps squating,so i dont feel lack of strength is holding me back?.

    When im doing my isometrics i slide into my side split position,give it 30 seconds or so,altho, i find personally that 30 seconds is not all ways enough time to let the 'burn' dissapate,then slide down again and so fourth,i do this about 3-4 times then hold the stretch fully tensing 100% for 1.30mins at the momment,then repeat for the 5 times.

    As for my diet,your probably talking to the worlds most healthy eater,zero,absolutely no junk food!..masses of fresh fruit ,veg,high protein,low fat foods mostly,altho in my defence i have no idea as to what foods actually help flexibilty!.

    As for sleep i get the usual 8 hours. any more than that is difficult to get in my house hold(a very demanding girlfreind and 2 kids prevent any more than 8 hours!)

    I hope that may help you understand what i may be doing wrong,
    Many thanks
    Daniel.
     
  5. Alienfish360

    Alienfish360 Valued Member

    Final question from me also.

    What other leg exercises do you recommend alongside isometrics in order to keep the knee joint strong?

    I have been doing this exercise since I started running to help strengthen my knee, as it is a joint I have worried about since I suffered from locked knees as a child (though not suffered at all in over 18 years, so although it may be unfounded, it is still on my mind, like the terrible human brain is)
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPyJlF_MAww"]Knee Strengthening/Rehab Exercises - YouTube[/ame]
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2014
  6. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    Past a certain range you'll want to roll onto the inside of your feet as shown in the image below, or risk straining your outer-ankle ligaments (calcaneo-fibular and anterior-talofibular).

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    What type of squat do you do - front, back, overhead, etc?

    Generally speaking, the path of progression from squats to splits is normal stance, sumo stance (with increasing width), and full split. Note that in the first instance (normal stance), your butt should touch your heels. Of the three types of squat I listed, overhead usually increases flexibility fastest (but make sure you have good t-spine mobility before you try them). The images below illustrate this progression somewhat:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    As the stance widens, you may find it more difficult to get the hips lower than before. But at all times, the absolute minimum you should aim for is hips below knees.

    How much do you weigh? If it's more than 45 kg, you're very likely not strong enough for full splits. You don't NEED heavy squats to touch the floor because isometrics will do that alone (as will relaxed stretches), but we're talking about speed of progress here. With all things being equal (joint health, starting flexibility, consistency, technique, etc), you're generally looking at the following time scales to achieve full splits:

    Relaxed stretches only: 1 - 2 years.

    Isometric stretches only: 6 months - 1 year.

    Heavy squats only: 6 - 9 months.

    Isometric and relaxed stretches: 6 months - 1 year.

    Heavy squats, isometric and relaxed stretches: 2 - 6 months.

    By "heavy squats" I mean 1 - 2 x your bodyweight on the bar, for 3 - 5 sets of 3 - 6 reps.

    You're doing the method described herein correctly.

    As I said, this isn't necessarily the best way (for you). It's essentially a starter kit for people new to stretching. It will work, but there may be others that produce better results quicker (for you). I don't believe you would have stuck with this single method for two years if you're only at 1 minute 30, but did you experiment with different types of isometric stretching (e.g. tense, increase, tense, increase)?

    Inflammatory foods that can hinder flexibility training include bread, breakfast cereals, cooking oils, red meat and dairy produce (I drink close to a gallon of milk every day, sometimes more). The effect might not be massive, but you should certainly experiment with your diet to see how your body responds.

    Some additional questions for you:

    What surface do you stretch on?

    How many times a week do you follow this program?

    What time of day do you stretch?

    What normally precedes the hour or two before you stretch - commute home from work, playing with children, cooking dinner, etc?

    How consistent have you been?

    Be honest please.
     
  8. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    Hindu squats.

    All my athletes and me routinely do 500+ per day and have no trouble kicking day after day.
     
  9. Alienfish360

    Alienfish360 Valued Member

    Thanks for all the help Van Zandt.
     
  10. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    By the way, I said I drink that much milk to show that even though a food item is considered inflammatory, you might not feel its effect (if at all).
     
  11. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    Post again whenever you have questions, it's why I visit here. :)
     
  12. Alienfish360

    Alienfish360 Valued Member

    It's also the reason I visit here, and decided to support the place, for the information that guys you like and others provide ;)
     
  13. daniel1973

    daniel1973 New Member

    side splits

    Hi,many thanks again,wow,lots of questions!.ok here goes...

    I weigh 13 stone(ish).surely squating 45 kgs is plenty?. i have tried front squats/ normal squats ,as in your pics with a fairly wide stance altho not as wide as in your 3rd picture.I was not aware i needed to perform weighted squats with such a wide stance,i was releying on the isometrics for that?

    with regards to the time spent under tension,sorry i miss typed it should have read 2.30mins.sorry.
    I stretch on a glossy laminate flooring and find slide out pretty easy.I tend to stretch in the evenings as i work during the day .i train kickboxing 3 times a week and 2 of my sessions fall on the days i stretch so again its an evening thing for me.

    As for my consistancy of stretching,believe me when i say VERY,TOTALLY RELIGIOUSLY.

    I would LOVE to know whats going on,coz its kind of getting to me now to be honest!!

    many thanks
    Daniel
     
  14. daniel1973

    daniel1973 New Member

    side splits

    Sorry for all the questions,

    I was wondering what exactly you meant by 'not strong enough' im a bit perplexed by this now!.how do you constitute not strong enough.

    I always considered my legs to be pretty strong.how do i determine if im strong enough?
    I feel like i have been wasting my time now.what with the squats i do do,training kickboxing 3 times a week and the isometrics surely i should have the required strength ?

    ggggrrrrr im annoyed with myself now for persisting when maybe i should not have?

    Daniel
     
  15. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    45kg is a weight that any able-bodied halfway active adult male (and many women) should be able to squat with no training at all... the two most popular/most widely publicized/proselytized beginner strength training programs across ze internets, those being starting strength and stronglifts 5x5, will have you squatting 45kg for multiple sets of 5 on your fifth workout or thereabouts, to be then left behind and never revisited except on a warmup set somewhere.
     
  16. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

  17. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    At 13 stone, you should be squatting at least 80-85 kg. So you're a little over halfway there. How long have you been squatting? How deep (low) can you squat with a normal stance?

    If you're squatting with less than maximum depth, you could be reinforcing poor flexibility (your body remembers that which you do most or with the most intensity). This might explain your plateau.

    You don't need wide squats, they just get you there a lot faster (see my earlier post for time scales). Those numbers are ballpark figures if you have "avaerage" starting flexibility and good form. If you started out with very poor flexibilty, or your form is off, you're as likely to go in reverse as you are standing still. Relaxed stretches on their own are the failsafe option, but you need to do them every single day, and they are slow and extremely boring. Squats and isometrics will get you there much quicker, but you need to do them right and change things up if nothing has improved after a few months (your body will adapt very quickly, hence the steady progression in the program I wrote for this thread).

    How much progress did you make, exactly? Did you, say, measure the distance from your groin to the floor on a weekly basis?
     
  18. daniel1973

    daniel1973 New Member

    side splits

    Thanks again for the reply.

    I was only squating 45kg,s coz thats all the weights i had on my bar and i wasnt aware that i should be squating with a higher weight,i will be able to squat 80-85 kgs with no problem if the ease at which im squating 45 is anything to go by,i will get some more plates!

    Relaxed stretches will make me want to loose the will to live im afraid!
    I actually enjoy the isometrics.
    So i dont NEED to wide stance my squats,just squat a higher weight,am i right?
    Like i said my dynamic flexibilty is good,i can head height just about every kick in my kickboxing syllabus,but not all forms of flexibility are born equal i spose and my static/side/front splits are not where i want them,altho front splits are very close.
    I think i was making progress to some extent,for example,on some days i could be as little as 8 inches from the floor in side splits position,BUT there was still a degree of discomfort,am i right in thinking that as i progress deeper split positions should start to become LESS uncomfortable?

    I was always confused at the rate i should move on from one stage to another in the programme?
    And when you get 12 inches or less holding the position is dam near impossible to acheive,or is that the point?..im unsure

    Many thanks again
    Daniel
     
  19. daniel1973

    daniel1973 New Member

    side splits

    Sorry,i have been squating since i started isometrics and i ALWAYS go way below parralel thighs.in most instances(i just so happen to have a full length mirror in the room i squat in) see my ass virtually on the floor while squating,straight back,i think good form.

    Hope all this info can help us both.
    Many thanks
    Daniel
     
  20. Alienfish360

    Alienfish360 Valued Member

    I tried doing 4 sets of 30seconds Friday. And adducters are still sore today, I assume this means that I am not ready to do this many? Should I attempt again when recovered, or lower the number of repetitions until I feel no pain after the workout?
     

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