Is Aiki ken based on "Dual" sword principles?

I am sure that beginners all around the world have walked into poor dojo and had bad a experience. I for one was guided by my dad who taught judo and steered in the right direction.

Of course there are some poor Aikidoka in the UK. I can also name groups of so called Tomiki Aikidoka in the USA who have a strange approach to say the least. I won't do this because I take the view that people practice Aikido for various reasons and who am I to tell them what they practice.

 

There's good and bad in every country.

Depends on your perspective who you think falls into either camp.

 

As a side note (as I am infinitely bored with trying to make sense of Izumizu):

I loved this dojo, and Jugokan was the main inspiration behind our own. Had some really good times/practice there.

 

THE ONLY person who appears substandard here is you.

We openly discuss our backgrounds - You refuse

We openly discuss and willing to divulge our grades - You refuse

We openly discuss what methods of aikido we study - You refuse

We are more than willing to disclose who our teachers are and what dojo/organisations to which we belong - You refuse

We can quantify what we base our opinions on based upon any of the above - You can't

You are the substandard one - not us.

 

@rebel
Yes, and some men stare at goats and make them fall down...
People that do not know any better are easily decieved. What were they looking for? What did they settle for? How many years did they settle for it?

Also, 20 years would have been 1992, their web site says they were founded in 98. Just wondering.

-------

Not denying there are good and bad dojo, especially if you compare one to another, one will always be better than another and for different reasons.

I was merely making an observation and a comment on a seemingly porportionately large number of MAPPERS on this aikido forum who have what seems to be a vast ammount of first hand expierience with this type of dance, fluffy bunny aikido.

I did not experience this myself at anytime, even before I started my practice in aikido. Guess I was just lucky.

@kogusoku

McDojo...late 90s term. With the fees charged for aikido here in the US (generally around $60-$75 USD per month where I live), I hardly believe that fits the mould for aikido.

Again, the folks there in the UK appear to have more experience training at and recognizing these establishments, or at least are more willing than their US counterparts to share their expertise in such matters.

@Dave

I freely share that which I freely share, or have you not caught onto that yet?

 

Maybe aikido should institute compititions. Dojo vs. dojo. Then the last dojo left standing, or the one with the most points wins. It could be a yearly event, winner earns or retains the title.

That would clearly draw the mark for aiki bunny dojo (the ones commonly refered to here on MAP), dance aikido, good aikido and great aikido.

We could have high ranking practitioners sit as judges...and even have a bunny award. What does everyone think about that? With all the bunny and non martial aikido going around out there perhaps this dojo ranking system will save many from wandering into the wrong dojo?

Good way to control the rabbit population? I don't know just kind of throwing it out there. And then the ones that are referred to as dancers or aiki bunnies can have a chance to show up and redeem theirselves.

Start with regionals, state, nationals, and eventually move onto to international competition.

We can even include a weapons event...wear the gear worn for kendo?

Include a multiple attacker event?

Maybe even have steep entry fees...$1000 per dojo?

 

Yeah, founded 1998 from what? Same energy balls, different organizations.

Take your pick... founded 1969 here: http://www.seattlekisociety.org/

Or this guy was the energy ball guy in the 1990s: http://aishinkai.com/

Izu, it isn't the name, Ki Society, Ki Aikido, Aishinkai... they go by many names... it is what they teach that groups them together.

Unfortunately, some of, if not a lot of it, could be quite good... but the bad leaves such a bad taste is ruins it for even the good ones.

Of course, I could have the wrong people... maybe none of the above ever claimed to use Chi or energy balls. Maybe they called it no touch throw. Maybe I just imagined it.

 

Rebel, I can throw someone without me touching them.

That is not the same as saying I can throw someone without them touching me.

In court it would play out like this: my hands never touched him, you honor.

Yin yang...or in yo, internal external.

 

See we didn't care back then Izu. We were like the school bullies and we made fun of the people that said they used Ki to throw people without touching them.

Now of course, I'm much more mature. I would never make fun of someone that did that. I would just nicely asked them to prove it or STFU.

 

funny how these aikido threads always devolve.

 

Quiet you :whistle:

 

@rebel

One need only look at the videos of Kano, Shioda, O sensei. There are plenty of examples of them not touching their uke, but their uke touching them in which they are thrown.

Or you can look at O sensei doing this without uke touching him at all. This is especially evident in the bokken vs. bokken videos he has put there. Not a throw per say, but the same concepts and principles at work. Slow it way down. Watch them again.

Or you could just take Chibba Senseis word for it...hypnotic powers O sensei had over him, and how he wishes he had that skill.

There are examples of this out there, by those with far greater skill than myself, as there are examples of dual sword principles in aikido, also by those with far greater experience than myself....

 

Also, think in terms of Sutemi waza....knowing what you know about this, ask yourself, would it be entirely impossible in this context to effect a throw without touching your attacker?

And could you not apply those methods and principles beyond mere technique?

In a variety of circumstances?

Under a variety of conditions?

If not, then you need to take a closer look at what, how, and why you train.

 

Man, it isn't whether it can be done or not. It is a matter as to whether it can be proved. I once disabled a friends arm that snuck up on me for a few minutes with a touch. I hit his funny bone and his arm went dead. Now how could I prove that I can do this at will? I only demonstrated it was possible, but I knew it was by luck.

The saying goes "There is no such thing as luck. Luck is just where preparation and opportunity meet."

With that said, I can see how one can prepare to have the opportunity for a no touch throw... however, this is not the same as some mystical power.

What do you make of this:

From http://www.psychic101.com/thoughtball-seduction.html

75 black belts and this one white belt and not one gets within 2 feet of the master but they all are thrown. What the...

 

What you freely share is fake, nonsensical, and waffled. You hide behind your keyboard. You're evasive when questioned, talk in riddles, back-peddle whilst habitually editing your posts when the idiotic content is pointed out to you.

In short, you pollute this forum with your tripe and degrade the otherwise good content.

 

Well, Dave, it is true that I tend to edit my posts. However the replies made to my posts are made by other mappers, and although I could very easily edit after those replies, I have not done so.

All one need do is take a look at the last edited time stamp and the time of the next post, and you will plainly see there is a difference in those times...

See, just another issue you have, that really isn't the issue you percieve it to be.

Yet look at how you react or perhaps even over react to that which is only imagined.

 

@Rebel

Like I said: and some men stare at goats. Would you believe that some folks would even pay money to see a movie about men starring at goats. People have been abducted by aliens, and all sorts of crazy claims.

Within the realm of one person attacking another, yes training in the techniques we practice, beyond just technique, but really combining ALL of it into aikido gives us these skills.

Do it everytime at will or on command? One has to do what the situation calls for. If the situation does not call for a particular technique, yet you want to do it so badly anyways that you have already decided and made up your mind...that is not a great example of a detached mind. Seems like a mind that is quite fixated.

No attachments, nothing is decided, the future is still happening. This allows one to be open and flexible to the environment and situation as it is happening. This allows for aikido, and its corresponding harmony to transpire.

Can others do such on call or at will? You have watched the G Shioda videos havn't you?

This doesn't answer your question?

Or are you still waiting for the goats to fall down? Waiting for some Star Trek like discovery to be brought to light regarding someones martial ability. And if this were the case? What would you do? Give up everything and move to Tibet or Antarctica, or Burma or wherever this person lived and become one of their students?

 

Izu, sometimes there is just an air of arrogance in how you post. It really rubs people the wrong way.

While detached mind is a principle, that wasn't the point of any of the discussion.

You didn't answer my question with anything of value. You instead, picked at things that you thought maybe were insightful to me, but it only showed how backwards you think sometimes.

The answer that you missed was simply "experience". The more someone experiences something, the more they can recognize conditions and manipulate situations in order to reproduce an effect.

Through experience you can make it appear as though you do something at will because you recognize the situation where doing such action is going to be a good option.

Unfortunately, some people take this too far and actually train other people (like brain washing) to set up the situations where something works all the time. Such as teach some one to always fall backwards when a hand goes into their face instead of teaching them to "not get hit" which could mean going backwards but could also mean evading, ducking, blocking, parrying, or attacking the attack, etc.

So when people are conditioned to do something, through this experience, they are effectively brain washed into taking a predictable action... this leads to such things as no touch throws.

Even a person with a detached mind can be brain washed to take a predictable action given stimulus.

Instead, a person can be trained to follow principles and learn to protect themselves instead of a predictable action, they adapt. Through the experience of adaption, predictable responses from brain washing can be avoided.

 

"I did not experience this myself at anytime, even before I started my practice in aikido. Guess I was just lucky."

No Izumizu, the issue is that you fundamentally fail to recognise that what you are (persumably) doing and talking about is EXACTLY the sort of fluffy bunny non martial rubbish that so many mappers have encountered.

In the other fields that I am invloved in credibility is established through the open display of both your actual skills, and the manner in which they were attained.

You pointedly refuse to do either, therefore you have no credibility. It really isn't that hard to understand.

paul

 

I can fully understand that some sutemi waza can set uke up to over balance. I cant see how a technique like irimi nage can draw uke in with no physical contact to break balance and then throw uke.

As an person who has practiced competitive Aikido with a partner who does not want to fall over I can assure you that none of this Aiki bunny stuff works. I can also assure you that if it did work, competitive Aikidoka and judoka would be using these techniques.

I am sorry that people who read these forums are exposed to the Aiki waffle.

1. Aikido is a physical activity that takes practice, practice practice,
2. Praying, chanting may calm the mind. Practice trains the body.

Although entertaining all this rubbish written about Aikido makes this wonderful pastime a laughing stock.