Iron body myth vs reality?

Discussion in 'Kung Fu' started by mewtwo55555, Dec 28, 2017.

  1. mewtwo55555

    mewtwo55555 Valued Member

    So if one practices iron legs would one be able to withstand an attack from a stick like a staff or baton or such? Or is this mythical thinking and iron legs are really only good for withstanding kicks and such?
     
  2. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I guarantee you that no "iron leg" will survive my staff smashing into the side of its knee ;)

    Physics still apply.
     
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  3. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    I did baton someone full power in the leg once with no effect.....





    ....well until I double legged him and choked him out. That was when the alcohol left and the leg went "hey, remember me?"

    It was noisy
     
  4. axelb

    axelb Master of Office Chair Fu

    there is a certain level of conditioning you can get to which can withstand some level of impact.

    A baton, or a solid stick: not going to happen unless the attacker has no strength/technique (maybe a toddler?), or if it's a display stick used in breaking demonstrations.
     
  5. Dan Bian

    Dan Bian Neither Dan, nor Brian

    Personally, I just wouldn't go around provoking folk who are carrying staffs or batons.
     
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  6. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    With a telescopic baton? How much do they weigh? Were you going for the hydrostatic shock thigh-wobble thing?

    Not wanting to ruin your funny story by getting all nerdy, but there must be huge differences in power generated by a glorified car aerial and 6 feet of hardwood. The difference in centripetal force from the larger diameter of arc (not for straight strikes, obviously), let alone the differences in mass...
     
  7. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Kinda the point....it DID work its just he was in such an altered state he didnt feel it until I "rebooted windows"
     
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  8. aikiMac

    aikiMac aikido + boxing = very good Moderator Supporter

    Ya, I've heard the same thing from police officers regarding people high on this or that drug. They seemingly don't feel blows at all, and just keep coming, so you have to go for chokes or breaks (except that police aren't supposed to break a suspect's bones).

    :eek: That's got to be rather scary. I don't wish to fight someone who is in a "berserker rage."

    After hanging around martial artists for a couple decades, I've come to opinion that "iron [fill-in]" is just a fancy way of saying "athletic conditioning for taking blows." Western boxers can be said to have "iron shirt" or "iron face," considering all the punishment they survive in a 10-round bout. So, sure, I wouldn't be surprised that somewhere people practiced hitting each other with sticks on purpose, the same as boxers spar.
     
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  9. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    I was of the understanding that some of those old Iron this or that training are considered outdated with modern science. That in reality, they broke down and wore out the body more than helping it. Not all of it, but some of it. the punching into gravel sort of stuff.

    I could be remembering wrong though.
     
  10. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    We do the iron training a little differently. :D

    Eskrima stick v 4ft metal bar.

    Makes you realise angles, interception, pressure testing and exposure is better than trying to toughen up your body to take the blows.

    25395728_802512306622261_5309687924013500388_n.jpg

    We wrecked a very good stick in minutes.

    Happy to test against someone's leg if they have iron body training.

    25289590_802512333288925_5144663587974750833_n.jpg
     
  11. mewtwo55555

    mewtwo55555 Valued Member

    I would be interested in reading anything you have on the subject. My knowledge might be a little out of date but stuff I have read says it hardens the body. Yes when one is 60 or such you will probably run into issues. I am genuinely curious.
     
  12. axelb

    axelb Master of Office Chair Fu

    In kungfu I trained iron arm for some time and iron Palm/shirt for not as long.
    After training at boxing and kickboxing clubs, some have similar conditioning, but you learn more skill whilst doing it. I.e. sparring, drills, bag work.

    Some research in the past has shown that bone strength increases through resistance training (like weightlifting), which also has he added benefit of increasing muscle and tendon strength.


    Probably why Iron Mike Tyson got his name :D
     
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  13. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    I have never delved into the subject. I am only going by what I have been told. I will double check with Tai Sifu that I am remembering what he said correctly.

    We do have some conditioning- wall bag, wooden dummy, and two person stuff. I know for a fact that I bruise less easily on my arms after doing two person forms for years. I used to bruise so very easily. My bruises are less often and far smaller now. That is anecdotal, but it is my personal experience.

    But the throwing your hands in gravel sort of stuff? Nah. That is the sort of stuff that I think is outdated. But, again, I will double check with my Sifu.

    And I am 52, and I want to do this my whole life. The point is to be healthy your whole life, so running into issues from training at 60 does not seem like a good idea to me.

    I agree with Simon though. The best way to spend one's training time is to practice skills where you don't get hit. You definitely won't take damage if you make them miss or block them.
     
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  14. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Sure, I just meant that if you have a stick big enough, his leg will bend the wrong way, so even if he doesn't notice it he'll be on the floor.
     
  15. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    I used to let the guys slam 5 or 6 foot staffs against my (2) forearms but I wouldn't want them to use a baton.And sure wouldn't try that against the MT guys' kicks.

    Never did any Iron body stuff,tho'.
     
  16. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I'm not into hard forearm blocks, but my shins definitely bruise way less than they did when I first started checking kicks in sparring. Also my knuckles don't get scraped up, bleed or end up with rough skin when I punch pads without gloves like they first did either.
     
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  17. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    I think this is key.

    I used to slam my hands into brick walls when I was in secondary school because I thought it would toughen them up (If only the internet has been as pervasive in the early and mid 90's) as I'd seen it done in films and computer games. I had a massive tough callous on my mid knuckle but that finger won't fold back properly and I'll probably have arthritis in that hand when I'm older.

    Education is key but there is a lot of poor information and probably bad practice to cloud the waters.

    For now I just condition my shins and fist through regular bag and padwork. I don't really need to be able to break baseball bats over my forehead to be honest...
     
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  18. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    It does seem like a really stupid way to go about things. Why not spend all that conditioning time learning how to use technique so that people don't get to hit you?

    I train with someone who used to be big into kung fu. He told me that dropping the hand onto a bag of fine sand was the way to do iron fist without the joint-damaging bags of gravel stuff. He's very dismissive of that training in general now though.
     
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  19. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    I think it's the common allure of borderline magical ability without sweating.
     
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  20. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I remember being told a, possibly apocryphal, story about someone with massive knuckle callouses managing to rip one of them off while doing a hook punch on someone. It was enough to put me off the idea!
     

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