Improving your aikido throws by practicing them while on your knees

Discussion in 'Aikido' started by Greetings!, Feb 1, 2015.

  1. Greetings!

    Greetings! Valued Member

    Greetings everyone,

    As a beginner student in Aikido, I am enjoying my aikido classes.

    Say, somewhere along the line I heard from someone, I can’t remember exactly who or where, either before I recently started taking aikido class or perhaps shortly thereafter, that an aikido student can help to advance his or her aikido skill by practicing the aikido techniques or throws while they are on their knees. I believe that wherever I heard this from, this person was possibly inferring that, for instance, either, no. 1 or no. 2, below.

    1. Nage or Tori practices the technique with Uke while they both go through the motions of the technique together from their knees. Thus, they both remain kneeling on their knees, as opposed to both Nage and Uke otherwise going through the moves of the technique while standing up on their feet. Or,

    2. Nage practices the technique on his knees, alone, going through the motions as if there was also an Uke present with him who was also kneeling on his knees.

    I already went to YouTube.com and searched on the keywords, “aikido techniques performed on knees”, as well as, “aikido techniques on knees”. What I get returned to me are mostly videos on the “Aikido knee drop technique”, or videos on Shikko knee walking, or other aikido videos on techniques not related to working on one’s knees in order to perform aikido throws.

    Thus, can someone possibly recommend or refer me to some good aikido videos related to this, that is, showing Nage executing, for instance, say, the complete throw of iriminage from his knees, or, say, shominage, ikkyo, or any other aikido throw while he is moving around the floor on his knees, either alone, or with Uke?

    Any responses would be greatly appreciated.

    Thank you very much.

    The best to all,
    Greetings!
     
  2. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

  3. bassai

    bassai onwards and upwards ! Moderator Supporter

    My understanding of this , is that these techniques aren't meant to improve your throws , rather replicate a likely scenario when most meeting were conducted while kneeling.
     
  4. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    i'd wager they improve your throws quite a bit simply by virtue of having you practice them in different positions though.
     
  5. bassai

    bassai onwards and upwards ! Moderator Supporter

    In my (so far limited) experience any improvement is more a by product than an intention , as the principles of moving off line and "blending" with the attack remain the same.
     
  6. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    I trained in Yoshinkan and there was a about a 15% emphasis on suwari-waza. In my mind that was still excessive. Hanmi-handachi (with sh'te standing and uke kneeling) is somewhat useful for learning to defend that transition between ground and standing. Unfortunately even then the more common and likely attacks with such positional disparity are not practiced. People chopping down or sideways at an opponent is rather ludacrous when most people will try to kick or knee you, and the lack of realistic punching is even more an issue here.

    When I made the swtich to BJJ I did find that the posture and ability to move on my knees did help somewhat in top positions. Every time the instructor made us start grappling from our knees I gained positional dominance, but that is training.

    The one other benefit I can see to suwari-waza is teaching minimal movement. Not being able to step too far means you learn exactly how far you have to move and on what angle. You don't waste any movement on your knees.

    Not a fan of it.
     
  7. LemonSloth

    LemonSloth Laugh and grow fat!

    To be fair I don't know anyone who practices it who actually likes it :p
     
  8. Greetings!

    Greetings! Valued Member

    Dear Fish of Doom, Bassai, SWC Sifu Ben, and LemonSloth,

    Excellent! Thank you very much for informing me regarding “Suwari waza”. I have just now discovered that there are plenty of videos pertaining to this on YouTube.

    I have received all the information that I need regarding this topic from you all. However, please feel free to continue this interesting discussion if you would like.

    Again, thank you very much, everyone!

    The best to all,

    Greetings!
     
  9. StrikingDragon

    StrikingDragon Valued Member

    I have found doing work on my knees stops any wasted movement.

    Equally it can be quite painful training a lot on yours knees!
     
  10. aikiMac

    aikiMac aikido + boxing = very good Moderator Supporter

    Ditto on both points. And ditto LemonSloth.

    I see suwari-waza as a tool for learning a principle. A big problem for beginners and intermediate students is being in the wrong place -- with the feet. Stepping wrong. Another big problem is trying to muscle the technique (that is, use arm strength to force something). Being on the knees takes away the dancy-dancy footwork, and it makes it very hard to muscle a technique. When on your knees you have to "move from the hips" and otherwise line things up like the instructor is always telling you to.

    But I hate it. I'm of the opinion that it's harmful for one's knee joints. There must be better ways to learn the same principles. :dunno:
     
  11. StrikingDragon

    StrikingDragon Valued Member

    Also if you are a beginner just relax and enjoy it and the throws should come easily :)
     
  12. afhuss

    afhuss Valued Member

    Uke doesn't have anywhere to go when you are both kneeling in kiza so, as a beginner, be mindful to to blast them into the ground with throws or jam them up with joint locks.

    Most newer people will have really poor posture when doing kneeling technique. They to keep in balance with a good center of gravity, especially while moving. You are going to want to just sit up where your but is off your knees and shuffle around....that's not helping you any. I would have good movement ability while kneeling before practicing many techniques.
     
  13. aikiwolfie

    aikiwolfie ... Supporter

    In my experience the improvement in suwari-waza comes learning move your hips while walking on your knees. As I'm sure everybody here knows, the hips are very important for maintaining balance and generating power. The only way to move effectively in this position is to learn to move your hips. At least that I'm aware of.
     

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