How do you make a martial arts/style/system

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Rataca100, Sep 20, 2017.

  1. Rataca100

    Rataca100 Banned Banned

    Big disclaimer, I AM NOT MAKING ONE ANY TIME SOON. I need more experience and i would most likely just get to a level where i can teach another martial art and teach it my way rather than make one. I could run one but not teach martial arts a lot sooner than i could actually teahc martial arts. :p



    So i know you would probably need a good basing in the fitness and sports industry to actually run a club perhaps security and defence ontop of that or vice versa (perhaps not defence). And it is probbly totally diffrent to say run a offshoot TKD club which is not part of any of the orginzations to making one based on TKD to making one from scratch.

    So how woudl you go about it? How would you merge two martial arts together considering you would need to actually go out and practice in the conditions you want to teach them or work where you would get into a fair amount of fights. So enlighten me. :p


    I get the feeling its basically used up and most things would be repeats and just be diffrent teaching styles and values, i mean the viewpoint of they work for combat or dont seems applciable in making soemthing for combat.

    Also where would a question on TKD's philosophy go? TKD thread or philosophy?
     
  2. Latikos

    Latikos Valued Member

    Most "new" systems that suddenly emerge are basically copies of known ones.

    The human body only has so many arms and legs, one can break for example.
    And there are only so many ways to break these limbs.

    There are only so many kicks and punches available.


    How you can "invent" a new style?
    Here it's rather easy: I call something "Latikos-Do" and tadaa! A new style is born.
    What could I do, to make it different from the others? I make my students wear pink shoes and a green/yellow striped smoking.
    Doesn't mean that it will make sense or a good system, but it has something new to differentiate it from others.

    And when people pay me to teach them my lethal finger poke, and if I were that greedy, I could accept that and have my own style, with disgusting clothing and stupid techniques.


    Personally I'd prefer to train and become good in what I do; at one point maybe teach it (more).
    I don't see a good reason, why I would want to start a new style; I'm not that much in love with myself ;)
     
  3. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    making a new martial arts system is like re-inventing the wheel - a complete waste of time. Unless you are looking for gullible people to sell "new improved wheels" to at a rip off cost.
     
    Hannibal likes this.
  4. aikiMac

    aikiMac aikido + boxing = very good Moderator Supporter

    In the TKD forum.
    Save the Philosophy forum for something more general.
     
  5. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    I think the genesis of many new martial arts styles is not that a new style is needed but that a current style is prevented from being trained in a new way by higher ups.
    For example...Bob does "X Karate" with the "Big X Karate Association".....Bob gets to be a fairly high grade, runs his own club but is still told what to do by the higher ups...Bob wants to incorporate other things into his training and what his students do...but the higher ups won't let him...so Bob leaves the "Big X Karate Association" and so as to distance himself from the "Big X Karate Association" forms a new style called "Bob's Combative martial arts" or whatever.
    Money is also a big factor.
     
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  6. Latikos

    Latikos Valued Member

    But does the association really has considerable influence and what is done during training?

    I can only speak for the clubs and associations I am in, obviously, but the only thing they (= the association) influence, is the grading-related stuff.
    So, yes, they say what they want to see at a grading, but the training itself they don't influence at all.
    There it's up to the teachers, what they do.

    That said, I do get what you mean with your example, don't get me wrong, but to me it always has that feel of looking for reasons, why to leave an association.
    But again, I know what you mean.
    And I don't know, if it my different in other countries or other associations.
     
  7. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    Sometimes this can be a good thing. Sometimes this can be a bad thing.
     
  8. Rataca100

    Rataca100 Banned Banned

    Want the split between the two main TKD organizations over politics?
     
  9. axelb

    axelb Master of Office Chair Fu

    I would also echo what @Latikos wrote. There are not a great deal you can make into a new martial arts. you can make a new club which focuses on a particular area or competition type. Even within one system/school/club you will find loads of students and coaches who all have their own variations on the way to do things.

    There isn't a great point to over analysing all the permutations and classifying it as one system, as that will then go on to be broken down analysed and offshoot into another system.
    As a very generic public facing view on MMA, many would say it's "new" but pankration is as old as it gets in terms of a martial art "style".
    Of course most of us are aware of this as we regularly research and study martial arts, but for new comers, the styles that made it to the TV or media more recently are always seen as a new style, there is one for each decade over the last century because of movie, tv or the sport of the time;
    Judo, Karate, Kungfu, kickboxing, ninjitsu, muay tha, bjji, mma, boxing.

    Whats the next "new style"? take your pick and call it something with a fancy name. Northern KenRyuThai - it's a brand new style that doesn't involve chi balls or axe kicks, and only punches below the belt are allowed.
     
  10. SCA

    SCA Former Instructor

    First thing I would say is, don't get ahead of yourself with things like this. You are a white belt. Right now you should be focusing more on training the fundamentals and growing from there.

    Having said that, it is possible to create your own system or art. In my opinion you need to master several established arts before you even begin to consider such a thing, which will take decades.
     
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  11. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Depends on the association (and the people that run it).
    Some associations are fairly hands off. Some are much more involved. Some will chuck you out if you train with the wrong people or do something they don't like. Especially if there's a chance they'll lose money.

    In terms of grading I think if you want people to be able to do it it should be in the grading criteria and syllabus. That sets up conflict with an association that controls the grading criteria.
     
  12. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    All you really do when "creating" a new style - especially these days - is give your "read" on already established systems. It's generally an inferior product
     
  13. Aegis

    Aegis River Guardian Admin Supporter

    There are essentially two ways to create a new system. The first is the lazy way, which has largely been mentioned (and rightly denigrated) above, i.e. just make up something a little different and call yourself the leading expert on it. This is pointless, but it's also the easy option compared to the second.

    Your second option is to study some fighting styles in great depth and then get a great deal of practical experience in applying the methods you have learned in real situations. After years of this, start to work out what techniques have the best chances of success, what you have to modify, what could be trained better. Eventually use your experience of real fighting to codify the techniques that genuinely work into progressive training drills and get rid of the stuff that isn't relevant from what you have studied before. At this point you might have a system of your own. It may be good, or it may only work for you and be next to useless for anyone else. It also might look like a minimalist version of something you already studied. In all likelihood, it probably isn't distinct enough from other stuff you have learnt to be marketed as anything other than a slightly different way of training style X.

    Certainly it's not worth setting out to do, as it's likely to require a huge amount of effort and not yield particularly good results compared to just training in existing systems that work for you and continuing to pressure test what you are taught by those with more experience.
     
  14. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Thing is...everyone makes their own system...nobody uses everything they've ever been taught. Everybody picks and chooses what they like or what they use.
     
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  15. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Traditional martial arts places mostly do it out of ego. There are exceptions too though. Often it's because they want to teach a specific way without restriction from a governing body.

    Then there are those that have their own system but it's not really important to development.

    Styles like CSW or Guerilla jujuitsu. They are not a style recognised by a governing body but it's a fair bet if you're an instructor in those arts you're a black belt in BJJ too (in the case of Guerilla Jujuitsu you'd also probably be a judo black belt).

    There are no CSW competition's but they compete in loads of grappling events and often do very well. An instructor in CSW is definitely a legitimate grappler.

    Then for every one of those legitimate systems there are thousands and thousands of crazy styles that off-shoot from their original dojo purely out of ego. There's about 20 that splintered from the Buj alone.
     
  16. Rataca100

    Rataca100 Banned Banned

    Was there always this decentralsied nature to martial arts and fighting? Or for say China most would look similar to a few chosen popular styles of combat?

    Also whats CSW? You know me and acronyms.

    I think i have picked up something from this, if i at a later date tried to do anything like this, principle is important technique not so much past demonstrating the principle.


    @Latikos Also, my stance on fighting is similar, its just it works for combat it doesnt. It is entirely possible for two similar or identical fighting systems to develop with no contact with each other. i don't so much care for style so long as it works and it works in a reasonable peroid of time. Linege doesnt mean much past proving that it was useful in fighting assuming its still taught to the same standard and purpose and evolved to adapt to mdoern concerns and threats. Little bit of a rant/tangent.

    Random question, isnt there a european version for the Sai weapon? I havent really looked into it nor know the names.
     
  17. Aegis

    Aegis River Guardian Admin Supporter

    a sword catcher or sword breaker is probably what you're looking for. Not identical, but similar in purpose.
     
  18. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

  19. Latikos

    Latikos Valued Member

    Ah, okay.
    Guess I'm lucky then, because we can pretty much do what we want.
    We just have, if we want to grade, be able to do the things that are asked; the way how we learned them doesn't matter at all and what we do aside from that isn't important either.

    I'm afraid I'm at a loss here, because I don't think I understand that sentence, sorry.
     
  20. Rataca100

    Rataca100 Banned Banned

    Should i ignore the obvious semantics argument here? :p


    I know about the sword breaker, but i wasnt specfically citing its design as it didnt look like the Sai.
     

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