I'm personally a fan of what Jack Chen is doing. Recreating an art from manuals is hard work. I think he's doing a pretty decent job. However, the problem is that it's just him and his group. The advantage HEMA has is that the amount of fighters is in the thousands, constantly refining and fighting each other. That's a huge reality check. If the HCMA scene takes off, then I think you'll find it have similar results to HEMA. As it is, they are behind the curve a bit. Scott Rodell once stated that the CMA guys are about a decade behind HEMA folks (ARMA specifically at the time). Given the difference in numbers, I don't expect that gap to close any time soon.
But he's not really recreating anything lost. If you gave me an English translation of the text and 2 days I'm sure I could give you an instructional video on it.
all good points, but it would not be at all surprising to find Chinese Doa systems existing in the mix. A selection of smaller Doa like blades is shown around 3.10 minutes in to the clip below. also at 4.33 is a section on angles of attack followed by a brief link to blades. The same movement of the blade and the position of the empty hand appear in Chinese Doa forms. [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKKZuS8c7rM"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKKZuS8c7rM[/ame] you can see the angles and the hand positions in the examples below. [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-M0mXYd4OLQ"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-M0mXYd4OLQ[/ame] [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxIyO3R0170"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxIyO3R0170[/ame]
The angles are also found in the Lichtenauer line messer/dussack, the Bolognese sidesword and British military sabre. It's just how you use a cut and thrust sword it would appear.
Sweet! Make some videos then. I'm not being a twit, I genuinely want to see the living tradition versus the reconstruction. That would be really great for me, as a HEMA instructor. Yes, I'm being selfish. But it would still be cool.
I'm seeing more Leckuchner in Inosanto than Hung Gar. That's my confirmation bias. We see what we want to see. Man, what a guy though. Thrilling to watch him work. When they went down to a crouching position I saw this:
I'm not that familiar with Leckuchner, more with Meyer which is very similar to CMA (although he is next on my list of masters to look at, the sword grappling stuff looks very interesting). The two Hung Gar videos aren't really that great, they are a bit loose and missing some important details, especially in the compound movements. The wrapping motions should all contain a half moulinet, wrath guard and either hanging guard or underhand guard depending on their direction, none of which can be really seen in those videos.
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxfNCEMdNfA"]苗刀 Miao Dao SiLu Basics - YouTube[/ame] [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJq3ErPK80E"]miao dao 苗刀å°åŠˆ (韓門) - YouTube[/ame] [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vD-Kl3Phbf4"]åŒæ‰‹åˆ€æ³•è‹—刀çŸ*兵（馬家家ä¼è¨“練法 基本架一蹚）　a chinese two-handed sword technique - Ma's training method Tan Tui 1 - YouTube[/ame] [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5MlAx7xYzg"]Chang or Miao Dao Mei Hua (Plum Blossom Form) - complete - YouTube[/ame] [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68-JGc6IIIw"]Ma Shi Tongbei Master Go Nai hui éƒ*乃辉 Shuang shou dao - YouTube[/ame] [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPP9xAbcaBY"]Miao dao old 2nd form - YouTube[/ame] This one's interesting as it has a lot of work with a reversed front hand and a flavour similar to the Spanish montante material [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKlNdF3xoKM"]苗刀Miao Dao- The Grain Leaf Saber 2 - YouTube[/ame] Here we have Chinese manual recreation by someone who obviously has prior training in CMA, notice the flow is much more like the above form than Jack Chen's material [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noYb1p3L0Sg"]ä¸*国苗刀刀法-辛酉刀法/Chinese Kungfu:The art of twohanded blade "miao dao" - YouTube[/ame]
Hopefully you'll be able to see this video. Schools that don't explicitly teach the two handed sabre Da Dao will often teach the short handled halberd which is essentially the same weapon and as seen in this video was used by some "big sword brigades"https://www.facebook.com/ilya.profatilov/videos/10153531285844952/ [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGIv0olwNc4"]Wu Hu Dao/ DaDao - YouTube[/ame] [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHr8TKf9c1g"]斩马刀 (Zhan Ma Dao, Horse Chopping Saber), å“ä»å¸ˆçˆ¶ (Master Toh Lin) - YouTube[/ame] [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBzm2XvmDoo"]Zhan Ma Dao (Horse Chopping Blade) 斬馬刀 - YouTube[/ame]
Oh I understand, I just think Langschwert found the flavour of them made it hard for him to pick out the details.
Popped up in my Youtube feed [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhddgJJBfvE"]香港楊æ°å¤ªæ¥µæ‹³ç¸½æœƒ - YouTube[/ame]
It's something that's been nagging at me for a while now, but I find it peculiar that in all of the miao dao forms they seem to keep the saber so close to the body for most downwards cuts - I can understand doing this occasionally, but it doesn't seem like the best way to use such a long sword. Do you know why they do this?
Because it's the end of the movement and you're seeing the follow through after the point of impact. Also because they're draw cutting, not chopping, which is a stylistic/strategy thing. (I do think he's dropping his wrists a touch late though). The finished posture is one of Marozzo's guards for spadone.
I thought that might be it. I just wasn't seeing any extension before the 'draw', and was not quite sure how to interpret that. I though that I was probably missing something, or some details were being left out of the forms.
I think part of that is context. Western fencing schools typically emphasise matched weapons, whereas Chinese styles usually emphasise usage against spears (the King of weapons in CMA lore). Against a spear speed and stroke recovery is REALLY important, and you need to enter with your feet, not your arms. Therefore extending with your arms (with a weapon that's not as nimble as a European longsword) isn't worth it. The manual that Jack Chen works from describes a spear armed opponent in the text.
Well, that makes a lot of sense. Squeezing out every inch of reach is certainly not going to give an advantage against a longer, nimbler weapon.
