This is one of the things that puzzles me about the use of this weapon in Aikido. Nobody ever seems to use the Hanbo very often. Which leads me to question the practical benefits of it's use in training. Learning the limitations of a weapon purely for the sake of it has no practical benefits.
Izumizu It's Makotokai, but what's in a name eh?!!!!:bang: The weapon itself is not as important as the priciples learnt from it, such as timing, distance and protection of your centreline. They are always constant whether its a bokken,jo,tanto or anything else. Different weapons are great for understanding ma ai. well thats what I tell myself anyway, i've still got the odd mishaped finger from when I get it wrong
-- Right, soz...an totally agree, MAKOTOAKI..., w/ ma ai aspects that all weapons teach in addition to their (for others on the thread) functionallity/disfunctionallity in a number of circumstances...had my hand and, on a seperate occaison fingers, whacked with a boken as well; lucky they were just painful reminders, and not crippling breaks rendering my hands immobile for life. However, my shoulder is still (even tho I could apply much better terms here...) "messed" up from training 20+ years ago.
The Jo really is simply awesome. There is just so much to learn with that thing, one could never master it....
-- Training with a weapon teaches the fundamental principles...for instance, I can use a Jo the sameway I can use a broom...and a broom may be what is available at the time. I can use a hanbo, and it is similar to a 2 foot or 3 foot long maglite (those steel heavy duty flashlights in case some of our readers don't know what they are), which may be near me as well. Understanding a weapons applications and limitations are just different sides of the same coin. Knowing how a weapon can be employed, and knowing its limitations and how not to employ it vastly increases your knowledge of weaponry. For instance, it is true with firearms. At close range a shotgun may do the trick, and I may know that from my training, however, if I pulled a shotgun on someone that was say, 100 yards away, it would be ineffective, and thus a limitation. Knowing the weapons intimately, how to use them, how not to use them, is a part of understanding the principles of combat. It also holds true for tools as well...I can use a hammer to drive a nail, but to use a phillips head screwdriver to do the same thing won't get me a job on a construction crew. Understanding how to use the tools/weapons in which we train (even if only for a short time), lends itself to allowing anything we hold in our hands to become a weapon.
Training with a weapon does aid the learning of the fundamental principles employed in Aikido. But only if that training is done correctly. Your shotgun analogy doesn't hold. For example I know from watching Discovery channel there were several "super guns" built during WW2. I know such a weapons range is vast to say the least. But that doesn't help me with my Aikido training. Similarly many people on this forum recommend cross training. But cross training once or twice a year for an hour or two will only bring minimal benefits if any. The same is true with weaponry. If you only train with a weapon a few times a year with large gaps in between then the advantage is minimal at best. In fact I'd say you wouldn't learn anything you couldn't learn from reading a book and executing the application of a little deduction, reasoning and common sense. In which case there is no point to such sporadic training. The benefits are minimal to nil.
-- if you are holding a super gun/weapn, or a shotgun with speacially loaded shot (which only leo an spec ops would employ), then you are only begining to understand. And trust me, the camera guys on the discovery / TLC channel will not come to your aid. Yes, the effective range may increas by 150 yards, but if you alraedy know that, you have your other tactics/weapns in play.,
In fact, I would trust more the camera/sound guys on the FOX network filimin the COPS series who actually carry a weapon than I would on any reality tv series based thereafter...just my own opinion based on the only real "reality" series out there (an some guys I know pretending to be behind a camera-). Weather they could employ that weapon in my defense remains to be seen, but at least they pack (an some of them double pack. In a war zone jounalists are limmited by certain roe's, which of course make no sense.)! Check it out: I would prefer this guy put me in cuffs any time I am in the wrong. It would make my life a whole lot easier!!! [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXXzvpnkvm0"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXXzvpnkvm0[/ame]
An the guy on the ground says ''I'm tryin..." If it was me in that situation, I would have aready at this point reached into the officers utility belt, slapped the cuffs on me behind my back, affixed the tazer on me, with his hand on the release, an unholstered his side weapon pointed at my temple ready to relieve me of any an all responsiblility on this planet asking him: "Yes, officer, what can I do next for you?"
We train a great deal in sword and stick as part of complete aikido. Learning to move in "along the line of attack" comes from aiki ken and jo. When the ken strikes it also "pushes or pulls" on contact rather than striking like a hammer. This is most important in atemi etc. Training with someone who has study in sword and stick is immediately much more effective than training with one who has not. I am not at all impressed watching any art where the students introduce swordwork and have obviously not spent a great deal of time using the weapon. Proper aikido body movement is based on sword /jo movement therefor a deep study of both these weapons are fundamental to proper training. Below the execution of irrimi nage using a sword to emphasise the sword principles which would still be there if I was not holding a sword.
Here is the thow used at the Kendo seminar in Edinburgh. Those seminars were excellent because it allowed us to crosstrain with many japanese martial artists.
Hmm, excellent use of caps lock Izumizu, I'm sure Makotokai would agree there is a LOT to that name , indeed at the very least it seems there are too many letters for you even to spell it correctly. :bang: And you had the cheek to accuse HIM of disrespect. Twonk.
Just for clarification, on the few times a year that we do use the hanbo in training, it is introduced more as a mini workshop, and the emphasis is not necesarily on the striking applications. Much is also introduced to us in the way of pressure points (for instance applied on the inside of the leg, just above the ankle is quite painful), and then certain wraps, escort or come along techiniques. I am not the instructor in these cases, as during these workshops we have a guest instructor or two that teach these concepts to dojo.
From what I've seen of the Hanbo it seems it is useless without an initial strike. I don't see how anybody can manipulate pressure points on the leg without first taking the attacker to the ground. Which I've always been taught is not a place to be in Aikido considering we always assume there are multiple attackers. Similarly there is no way as far as I'm concerned to execute an effective "come along" technique without an initial and debilitating strike. In the real world these techniques are complicated by struggling and unpredictable attackers who will do whatever they can to escape. Which is not a situation that can be replicated in the dojo.
If you only use the weapon two or theee times a year that is of no value at all, Escort and come along techniques? Utter nonsense against another exponent of the hanbo who shall beat you to pieces with the basic strikes of the hanbo while you are attempting such techniques. Principles of sword and stick are in every aikido empty handed technique and are there because of the CONSTANT training in weapons.
-- Yes, strikes are definately important, but as I stated not the main focus. My apologies if I gave the impression that we can just walk up to anyone and apply a technique without setting it up first, or being in the position to do so. But the focus of our training with a hanbo has the emphasis placed on what to do following the initial strike/set up. We also are taught a series of pins during that mini workshop, which are basically pins used while holding and applying the hanbo (much the same way one would pin while holding a jo in some cases). These are the same types of applications that are used in some law enforcement applications world wide (or with telescoping batons) when less than deadly force is required, and have been taught to us by a law enforcement officer on a semi regular basis.
-- Hi, Koyo. We use the hanbo as a form of crosstraining, to help us make a mental shift from the weapons we ordinarily train with, that we have grown acustomed to. Because of the different principles, and applications of the weapon involved it is quite challenging (for some of our practitioners) to understand the weapons value. As far as training with another exponent of hanbo, the same could be said of our training of tanto, which we train with far more regularly. However this training does not make us now expert knife fighters, ready with ligatures around our arms and forearms to slow blood loss should we get cut. Rather, our limited training with the hanbo helps us to understand the variety of ways it may be employed when in our hands, or when in the hands of an attacker (trained / untrained) employed against us, which inturn allows us to sieze defensive opportunites that may not be as obvious had we not taken some training with the weapon.
