Agreed mate, but I am one of many I suppose who are free from those emphasis's because I'm simply less interested in them as a core foundation of the martial art. I accept they exists by and large, and respect those who wish to follow those philosophical ideology. Granted, yes that would be using undue force if spilling one's pint was all that was involved. Agreed but one's action aren't peaceful, passive or anything other than controlled application of aiki. Maybe it's the wording of your interpretation, but to use the words violence and peaceful and round them up to mean the same thing is a contradiction, even if one is using a philosophical position to base one's opinion. To resolve conflict one has three basic options. To be passive hoping the conflict will resolve it's self without your intervention. (least likely to work) To be proactive in negotiation offering the least amount of perceived threat to your adversary. (Most likely to work if the aggressor is open to reason) - Requires specific skills and confidence To respond to aggression with aggression. (only likely to work successfully if one has the physical abilitys to meet the threat with equal or higher advanatge) - Should always be the final resort The second and third options are closely intertwinedr, one should always endeavour to negotiate before responding with aggressive behaviour however, as we know this isn't always possible, indeed attempting to negotiate under certain circumstances is positively dangerous. The three options above are very generalised. Well you've touched here on my thoughts and opinions on several aspects of "modern" aikido, which I feel is lacking in areas regarding 'application through experience'. I can only speak of my experiences which have taught me that unfortunately some styles fall short of the mark in practicality sense; No I'll re-phrase that, *some instructors fall short of the ability to present their lessons which reflect a need for a more "martial" application and, as you state, aikido has become in some quarters a dance of purely co-operative interactions even at dan grade level.
Hi Dave, Good Stuff. This must the best Aikido philosophy discussion I've had. It usually decends into flowery Ideals and I get fed up and leave. I think of it as peacemaking rather than peacekeeping. In todays western world of political correctness. Peace seems to be made out to be a passive occupation. Whereas I tend to follow the parabelleum ideal of those that want peace must prepare for war, and if war comes the only war can restore the peace. Therefore violence can be a peaceful action by my logic. I always thought reading Ueshiba, he kinda thought along the same lines. He went much further since he tried to create an art which would on respond to violence with the force it used. A noble effort to try to embody a difficult concept in a martial art, however, as soon as you read peace and harmony as pacifism, then the art becomes ineffective. Since Atemi are at the core of Aikido and how can a strike be a peaceful act by the pacifist logic. As you know dave, remove atemi and Aikido does become nothing more than a dance. Regards, The Bear
Have you read my thoughts on Atemi Waza in aikido ? http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18151 I think you and I share a common base regarding Aikido. Let me again state for those who do believe in KI and follow a deeper line regarding the philosophy of the founder, I have respect for those aspects, I do not seek to debunk them or attempt to disprove the existence of KI or the benefits some students achieve from that belief, merely, I don't follow that line of thought through my study of what I consider to be a martial practice rather than a philosophical study based in a 'martial' context.
Hi Dave, Where is your club based Dave? I would like to see how you implement your ideas, I think it would help me express my own ideas to my students. Regards, The Bear.
I'm based in Cleethorpes NE Lincs. Email me if you want to visit you'll be more than welcome. dave@aikido-database.co.uk Regards <edit> Alternatively I'd be happy to travel to see you and give a class if that's not being too presumptious ?
Just to butt in. Chiba Sensei once described compassion (in Aikido terms) as "having to ability to destroy, but not destroying". I think thats a pretty good definition of "active" peacekeeping. Philip Smith
P.S. Forgot to mention good dojo in Glasgow is SanYouKan which is part of the British Aikikai (led by Chiba Sensei) instructor: Stephen Boyle Tel01236) 731 210
Phil, do you agree Chiba Sensei's words indicate that a student must first attain that "ability to destroy" thereby studying a martial discipline that equips one with these skills, in order to be able to decide when and where to exercise compassion ? Regards
Dave. Do you realise that your expression of belief is remarkably similar to that of one of the 5 forms of Zen? Shojo. (small vehicle) This isn't a personal comment on you, merely an observation on what you are saying and how you generally say it. I am not suggesting that you follow this path.
Nice thread - I always remember Cleethorpes as a permanent sea fog, but maybe it's better now. Your postings seem clear enough! Wasn't all this 'harmony' stuff concerned with RESTORING balance and harmony - that's often a bloody and violent process whether you apply it to a disturbed universe or a single attack and defensive technique. So, a bit like Zen then... ouch! (How about a new school of AikiZen where you get smacked with a plank of wood whenever you lose concentration?)
I think the Billy you are talking about might be Sensei Andrew. He used to teach in the uni when he was training under Sensei Matt Tennant. He's now running his own organisation, Aikido UK. It's still very small with only 3 clubs but the number of students are growing. Hopefully the number of clubs will grow too. http://www.aikido-uk.org
:bang: Yes there are some bad ones in there. I'm weeding them out gradually. If you want to point any out feel free.
http://www.aikido-uk.org/practice.html well on that page they have excorcises, exorcising, phylosophy and beleive. I blame bloody Thatcher. Destroyed the education system up here, bitch. Thank God our kids are getting better. (me walks away ranting)
Oh yeah those words. I have yet to find two 'UK' spell checkers that spell them the same way twice. I could go look up a proper dictionary but that'd be too easy. Personally I blame Microsoft.
Dear Bear I have just come on line and would like to say that the makotokai is not cliqueish. Everyone is welcome especialy bears!!
BEAR!!!! How did you find out about the gray men? You can expect a black figure absailing through your window any day now. Koyo
HI koyo welcome to the site, i just checked outyour new website. looks really bloody good mate. did you not used to have more pics though? Anyway good to see ya here, ive trained with a few of your guys at sensie toutains seminars in edinburgh. when i get back from japan next year maybe ill see you guys again. all the best.