Does Aikido stem from Chin Na?

Discussion in 'Aikido' started by sstrunks, Sep 10, 2007.

  1. 0gmios

    0gmios Valued Member

    As far as I know they are only called by their attack, which I said before was tsuki age (upper cut), it is the third technique. I, personaly think this is similar to the shoto dori technique in the Tehodoki no kata, which I can't remember the name of.
     
  2. Toby Threadgill

    Toby Threadgill Valued Member

    Steve,

    Is Graham talking about Mogi Tori?

    Toby
     
  3. Kogusoku

    Kogusoku 髭また伸びた! Supporter

    Tsuki-age in the Kodokan Kime no kata is a defence against a genkotsu-tsuki to the throat. The response is a double palm deflection into waki-gatame. Nothing like mogi-dori in the Te-Hodoki set of techniques.

    Are you sure you don't mean Suri-age? The uke attacks with a shote-uchi to the face, the tori does suri-age uke, kicks the uke's stomach, pivots and face-plants the uke into the floor, locking the elbow with the knee? That comes from a different jujutsu ryuha, as does Sode-dori in the tachi-ai portion of the Kime no kata.

    PM me for further details.
     
  4. 0gmios

    0gmios Valued Member

    Considering the punch is Tsukkake, yes I mean Suri Age :D

    In Aikido we call a standing technique Tsuki Age (thrust up), were you do a palm heal strike to the face, hence my mistake. In our sword work we have a Suri Age (push up) movement.

    Is there a list anywhere for the Kime no Kata that specifies where each technique originated?

    Regards,
     
  5. Kogusoku

    Kogusoku 髭また伸びた! Supporter

    Unfortunately, no. You really have to know your koryu and technical characteristics therein. Kime No Kata was often thought to be just renraku (combination) waza of Tenjin Shinyo-ryu techniques. Recently, it has come to light that the set is comprised of techniques from more than one jujutsu ryuha. You certainly won't find the Idori version of Ushiro-Dori in Tenjin Shinyo-ryu, nor ke-age.
     
  6. 0gmios

    0gmios Valued Member

    Interesting. Especially the idori ushiro dori!

    Thanks for all you info Steve.

    Regards,
     
  7. Kogusoku

    Kogusoku 髭また伸びた! Supporter

    The tachi-ai version of ushiro-dori is very similar to Tenjin Shinyo-ryu, but not exact. This is also kind of a generic technique among some koryu jujutsu schools.
     
  8. kensei1984

    kensei1984 Panda Power!

    I came over something interesting while I was reading some required text, I found that Ueyshiba had also studied Kito-Ryu as part of his regimen before he had invested Aikido. Kito-ryu was one of the major school of ju jutsu and was founded by a Chinese man called "Gempin", who immigrated here from China to escape the rising regime of the Manchu dynasty. When he settled here permanently he taught three recorded disciples in an art which was described as “seizing and controlling a man.” It would seem that Chin Na does have an influence in one of the primary arts that formed Aikido.
     
  9. Kogusoku

    Kogusoku 髭また伸びた! Supporter

    Did you read this thread before typing? This has been covered. Twice.
     
  10. kensei1984

    kensei1984 Panda Power!

    Ah but's it's been so long! :p I have to visit more often and revise the topic.
     
  11. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    Bottom line kensei. If we must point to one main influence it must be Daito Ryu of Takeda Sokaku. This from shihan who trained under Ueshiba, "modern day Aikido is the creation of O Sensei Ueshiba every art he studied "became aikido".

    regards koyo
     
  12. Kogusoku

    Kogusoku 髭また伸びた! Supporter

    Does that exempt you from reading the contents of the thread? No.
    Does it make you look silly if you don't read the contents of the thread? Yes.
     
  13. kensei1984

    kensei1984 Panda Power!

    Ah k, well apologies then.
     

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