Differences in techniques between Aikido & Hapkido

Discussion in 'Aikido' started by knightvision, Mar 17, 2014.

  1. knightvision

    knightvision New Member

    Hi everyone,

    I'm curious if anyone has specific details how Aikido techniques differ from Hapkido? For instance, how 'shiho nage' may be different between the two arts, along with kote gaeishi, and other similar techniques.

    I'm also curious if anyone has good resources on the translation of Aikido techniques done unarmed, vs. the same technique done with a katana.

    Thanks all!
     
  2. dentoiwamaryu

    dentoiwamaryu Valued Member

    These techniques differ within Aikido styles never mind outside of Aikido.
     
  3. gapjumper

    gapjumper Intentionally left blank

    Well I doubt Hapkido uses those names for a starter.

    Even among Japanese arts, those names can refer to very different techniques.
     
  4. matveimediaarts

    matveimediaarts Underappreciated genius

    I'm not sure what you're asking here. I practice katana (Shinkendo, primarily), and may be able to help you if you clarify.
     
  5. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    they're basically the same techniques, but the point of the application is different. overall, there are many differences in the syllabi.
     
  6. knightvision

    knightvision New Member

    Oh, awesome! I am asking... how do the empty hand techniques translate to the armed (katana) movements.
    Are the moves the same, or translate when a person has a weapon as when they do not?

    I've seen obata sensei, and I'd imagine his movement, with or without the sword, is very similar. I'm just trying to determine if all the joint locks are "hidden" but used in the movements when someone has a sword in their hand? .EG, would a Shinkendo practitioner ever do a kote gaieshi movement while yielding his sword in order to disarm an opponent?

    Other question how do the unarmed obata sensei movements compare to Aikido?

    Thanks for your help! Very interested in whatever you can share...
     
  7. knightvision

    knightvision New Member

    Giovanni, those point are what I'm looking for. Can you elaborate?
     
  8. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    I study Hapkido and cross train sometimes in Aikido.

    In a nutshell, I find that the footwork, techniques, and concepts tend to be very similar in many places, most likely based on the common lineage of Daito-Ryu Aikijujitsu.

    In general, I find more striking and throwing in Hapkido, and more pinning finishes in Aikido. Aikido footwork seems to me to come in larger circles and often seem to have additional steps (as if winding up more momentum) where Hapkido footwork seems to go in a smaller circle and be more direct. I also find that Aikido practitioners seem to have a greater sense of caring about the comfort of their partner (uke) in techniques.

    As far as techniques go, I've seen most of the same locks in both systems, just with different entries and different finishes. Aikido seems to have a very systematic naming system for their locks and Hapkido has no standardized set of names (most schools I have seen use #1, #2 etc but different schools use different numbers, some use very different names).
     
  9. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    thomas has a nice post explaining some key differences. i'll only disagree with the comfort aspect in aikido. lol. not at the places i studied. it's certainly not there in hapkido and one does learn ukemi very quickly to compensate.
     
  10. aikiwolfie

    aikiwolfie ... Supporter

    It's not so much the comfort of uke we care about. Rather we recognise we can't practice without our partner. So we don't damage them if we don't have to. With that said. I'd always recommend hard practice for those that are capable.
     
  11. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    My comments about comfort of the 'uke' are only based on my own experiences. With every different group of Aikidoka that I've worked with, they've spent a lot of time showing the uke how to receive the technique and sometimes even modify the way they throw someone in order to facilitate a better landing for them (and I hear phrases like , 'Follow the hand' and such).

    In most Hapkido groups I've worked with, there is just an expectation that the 'uke' will know how to fall or take it and that they are 'on their own' to prevent getting hurt. If you watch demonstration videos or the older masters, it seems like the Korean HKD masters don't particularly care if the partner gets hurt and the Aikido masters seem to go very gently on theirs.

    This is just my experience and may not be that way across the spectrum.
     
  12. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    thomas you need to check out some videos of chiba and how he treats his uke. lol. or check out the iwama m. ueshiba pictures.
     
  13. aikiwolfie

    aikiwolfie ... Supporter

    Is it a "Ki" oriented style? Kinda sounds like it.
     
  14. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    Not sure what that means. The man I work with is a student under Irvin Faust (Shihan), who is/was a student of Yoshimitsu Yamada.
    Faust Shihan http://usafaikidonews.com/albany-aikido-celebrates-irvin-faust-senseis-shihan-certification/
    Yamada Shihan
    http://nyaikikai.com/

    I like the way they train - lots of time on the fundamentals and safety and then lots of practice-hit the mat-practice-hit the mat. Open minded and serious people (loads of fun)

    Edit - older video of Faust Shihan testing (after about 5:20 there are some sword defenses) [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3CXIWs5iLY"]Irvin Faust Shihan's Nidan Test in 1984 - YouTube[/ame]


    More recent video of Faust Shihan
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqB9V5jvt6E"]Irvin Faust Sensei - Katatori Menuchi Projection 2 - YouTube[/ame]
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2014
  15. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    From the Hapkido perspective, I think this video of GM Myeong Jae Nam (IHF Hapkido/Hankido and some Aikido influence) shows some of the similarities/differences in the arts as well as the 'less than kind treatment of uke' that I was used to in Hapkido.
    The first few minutes actualy touch on sword defenses too (I like the way GM Myeong does them..I haven't seen many 'good' Hapkido demos of sword defense)
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBj_MpxfURg"]Hankido demonstration by Myung Jae-nam kuksanim (old VHS tape) - YouTube[/ame]
     
  16. aikiMac

    aikiMac aikido + boxing = very good Moderator Supporter

    Taking up kendo, of course, would get you where you want to go, but besides that, these books might have some useful pictures:

    [ame="http://www.amazon.com/The-Structure-Aikido-Open-Hand-Relationships/dp/1883319552"]The Structure of Aikido: Volume 1: Kenjutsu and Taijutsu Sword and Open-Hand Movement Relationships (Structure of Aikido, Vol 1): Gaku Homma: 9781883319557: Amazon.com: Books[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Principles-Aikido-Mitsugi-Saotome/dp/0877734097"]Principles of Aikido: Mitsugi Saotome: 9780877734093: Amazon.com: Books[/ame]
     
  17. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    Taking up Kenjutsu or iai might serve him better though.
     
  18. aikiwolfie

    aikiwolfie ... Supporter

    It's Aikikai. There are different branches of Aikido. The follow the hand thing sounded quite similar to the practice of "following" in Ki Aikido. It's an often misunderstood graduated method of offering resistance while allowing the student to actually learn at the same time. Most students don't get it though and just fall down "at the right time" and nobody learns anything in the end.
     
  19. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    Cool -thanks

    I usually hear it when the guys are throwing us - it's a good cue to guide you to fall correctly. A lot of the Hapkido guys just throw you and expect you to know how to land!
     
  20. dentoiwamaryu

    dentoiwamaryu Valued Member

    The problem with these two videos is there is I cant see any really attack from either Uke or Nage , uke just seems to put his hand out to be used. which makes any form of effective technique very difficult to develop in my opinion
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2014

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