O`sensei was very against competition because he thought that your training should be about try to better yourself rather than trying to beat anyone else, so long as you keep that in mind when you train in Randori rather than think "he threw me! I`m gonnna get him now." It`s also good for developing your posture, if your postures bad, when your balance is taken you`ll fly off before Tori even has to perform a technique. just by two cents worth
in kisshomaru ueshiba book called the spirit of aikido he states{In contrasts,aikido refuses to become a competitive sport and rejects all formsof contests or tournements,including weight devisions,rankings based on the number of winsand the crowning of champions.Such things are seen as feuling only egotism,self-concern and disregard for others.A great temtation lures people into combative sports-everyone wants to be a winner-but theres nothing more detrimental to Budo,whose ultimate aim is to become free of self,attain no self,and thus realize what is truly human.}hope this sheds some light on this subject.
Firstly, hi kull1268, welcome to the forums. You would expect Kisshomaru Ueshiba to say things like that as obviously he followed very much in his fathers footsteps. That particular line of Aiki will always remain very anti-competition. Yoda makes a good point, all martial artists must make up their own mind about things, regardless of their sensei/shihan/lineage. Obviously I would never dream of claiming that anyone of the Ueshiba family has got it wrong. Way above my station. But the same goes for Tomiki's ideas. He had some very compelling arguments for the use of competition in Aikido. And Shioda. And Tohei etc....Some interesting concepts of Ki. OK, I'm think I'm beginning to ramble cos I'm trying to watch the Texas Chainsaw Massacre on TV at the same time as writing this.
My personal opinion of competition is that it should be kept as purely an aspect of training, not an end unto itself. As long as it remains fun and friendly then there is benifit to be gained. As an exersice in relfew and application against uncompliant opponents its second only to a real fight (and we don't wanna loose teeth ) Col
The style of Aikido I study has no competition. But I dont have a problem with it. I have a great book called AIkido and the Competitive edge. Which discribes the oringal Aikido thinking which is: Fights = Bad Matchs/competition = Fights Match/competition = Bad. Which I dont really agree with. But I think Tomiki did a great job of introducing a sports aspect to Aikido. Shodokan Aikido is something I would like to study at some point in my life. I can only see benefits to having a controlled full contact aspect to Aikido. Which not only improves physical aspects, but like Kano said forges the spirit.
Would that be the book by Nariyama & Shishida shihans? I've not had a chance to read it yet, but given that they are the head guys in Shodokan I would assume its pretty much the business. I take it that excerpt from the book was from before Tomiki's time, more likely when Ueshiba termed what he was doing as "Aikido" ?
Yeah, more or less. The thing I have always found difficult to understand is that O Sensei (from what I have read), was in many fights. So in essence he must have learned a lot from them and the true applications of Aikido. However, because of this experience he did not want his students to fight. So how can we learn how to truely apply Aikido. I guess its one of those things that we are not meant to understand.
Aikido as a sport? Well this is not true... Aikido is one of the greatest ARTS with the primary goal of self defense and building character etc.. And it can't be used for COMPETITIONS..and if some do , they are outside the "Spirit" of martial arts , and it becomes useless by then.. Thank you -Have Fun!-
If you are saying that I have just wasted more than half my life training in something that is 'outside the spirit of martial arts' and is 'useless', then I take great offence to that. Do you have any Aikido knowledge/experience, or are you quoting textbooks? I may have misunderstood the tone of your post, but if not, then I would ask you to be a bit more careful what/who you make statements about, especially outside of your own main art. P.S. Thanks, I have had fun for my entire time training!
Oh Well... I am talking about AIKIDO as a martial art , and generally about MARTIAL ARTS.. But since there are competition with points , medals etc.. then it becomes useless by then , and i have never said anything about you have wasted any of your time since i don't even know you.. But converting a traditional MARTIAL ART to a competition sport , then yea , its useless anymore! -Thanks-
Why is it useless? If you are going to say things like that then you have to be able to give reasons. Fair enough, you weren't saying anything against me, but if you make these claims against competitive arts then you will find a lot of people will take it personally. I personally don't care too much - your opinions are yours, mine are mine - although I definately disagree with your views. I see you do TKD. I have many friends that train in TKD, and I'm sure that they would dispute your anti-competition views.
Re: Aikido as a sport? What utter hogwash. Please enlighten me as to how training in uncontested staged theatrics leads to "building character".
There seems to be this kind of BS floating around - "If they compete they are useless and/or they don't know what street fights are" I wonder why? *shrug* never mind You can train to fight and still compete, it ain't gonna make you any less of a martial artist |Cain|
Boxers Thai Boxers Judoka BJJ stylists Wrestlers All competitive athletes and all more than capable of opening a can-o-whupp-ass on some "too deadly to compete" street wannabe in combat pants & jack boots with his eye boinks and assortment of deadly keyrings.
I used to be Uber Traditionalist. I think as my martial arts knowledge has matured my opinion has changed to it "can be about whatever YOU want it to be about". Not about Great Masters and "dangerous" techniques. Sure some are unpleasant and deadly but thats the wonder of "control".
Cheers Tintin. If I am honest, when I started Aikido, I looked down on every MA that did not have some deep and meaningful philosphy behind it. If it was just about fighting I automatically hated it, arts like MT, BJJ, Sambo... etc I would rip into. However, firstly I am no hippocrite and I would not get on the mat with one of these guys if you payed me. Second and more importantly you do what you want to do. Every martial art has room for change, no necessarly improvement, which is where I disagree with Mr Lee. Every style wont tickle everyones fancy, you have to go with what you enjoy. If you like meditation, tradition and hakama then Aikido is for you, if you want to roll and fight then Judo or BJJ. I get annoyed with these style Vs style tradition vs modern debates. Its what you want that matters to you. If the MA your doing does not suit you then leave, IMHO it takes more guts to leave, pick yourself up and start again than stick at something you dont believe in. Although I dont like a lot of what the Gracies say, there is one thing. "A Black Belt only covers 2 inchs of your ass, the rest you have to back up yourself" I think that can be applied to ANY Martial Art and ANY Martial Artist.
So if a Martial Art has a competition aspect to it then it isn't a Martial Art? I notice you practice Tae Kwondo. Have you bothered to read the rest of this thread Tradwarrior? the competition aspect is there to increase reflex and reaction speeds. To test muscle memory, technique and improve endurance. I don't see how this is usless. Col
