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Discussion in 'Western Martial Arts' started by Stolenbjorn, Mar 2, 2012.

  1. Stolenbjorn

    Stolenbjorn Valued Member

    I wouldn't mind visiting theese guys, I think they're quite good:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ln94E9AGYTc&feature=g-vrec&context=G266374aRVAAAAAAAABQ"]Zwerchhau, absetzen, nachreissen - longsword techniques training - YouTube[/ame]
     
  2. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    Doing abanico with a longsword is fairly impressive.
     
  3. Stolenbjorn

    Stolenbjorn Valued Member

    I'm hazarding that abancio referes to renissanse/modern rapier/epee-stuff?

    I've never done much raper and it's deriatives, but to me, it's pretty easy to see traces of longsword-thusting in more modern styles.

    To me, modern weastern fencing is longsword minus the cuts :D
     
  4. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Abanico is a fan type strike where the weapon describes an arc around the hand rather than being swung or thrusted.
     
  5. LilBunnyRabbit

    LilBunnyRabbit Old One

    Try looking at sabre or epee. ;)
     
  6. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    It's a Kali term, and is as described by PASmith. Of course with FMA it's always possible that it originates with Spanish rapier styles.
     
  7. lklawson

    lklawson Valued Member

    Displayed at ~23-24 secs in.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
     
  8. Langenschwert

    Langenschwert Molon Labe

    It's a standard Zwerchhau, only done on both sides. It translates as "Cross/Thwart Strike". What might not be visible to the observer is that when done from the right, it is done with the back edge of the sword with the thumb beneath the blade, and the front edge when done from the left.

    The strike is designed primarily to attack high cutting guards held over the head or at the shoulder, and to defend from attacks from those same guards (no surprise there).

    It can, however, be done at any angle, along both ascending and descending lines, not just along the horizontal. The important thing is that the hands must be held high to protect the head.

    Best regards,

    -Mark
     
  9. Polar Bear

    Polar Bear Moved on

    Entertaining. Key principle of Fuhlen is discarded in exchange for speed. Also the is no unbalancing on the point of contact so the opponent (though in the video seems to have been hit by a D&D freeze spell) can continue to attack.
    I don't get alot of this modern training stuff. I don't know why people seem to be in a damn rush all the time with swords. As for the bouncing up and down, what happened to the principle of swordsmanship of not establishing a rythmn unless you intend to break it.
    It's lovely to watch but it's staged which is also why it's lovely to watch.

    As old Koyo used to tell me "Maximum mobility through minimum movement"

    The Bear.
     
  10. Stolenbjorn

    Stolenbjorn Valued Member

    Yes, the video only shows that the people have drilled the techniques pretty well. Videos showing free-sparring usually doesn't look as impressive. I still wish I could walk through the manuals with the same speed and presicion.

    I allso agree that beeing able to do this isn't worth much if it doesn't improve your freesparring abilities.
     
  11. Polar Bear

    Polar Bear Moved on


    Sadly it doesn't. In fact it tends to have a really nasty habit of making you very predictable. If you drill the number of times required to perform these at this high level then you'll start doing those drills in the middle of fights when you should be looking for openings. Despite what many people say, fencing is not a flow chart of techniques.

    The Bear.
     
  12. Stolenbjorn

    Stolenbjorn Valued Member

    That trend is allso apperant here in norway; people tend to either spar-ignoring manuals completely, or end up in the other ditch, focusing too much of fighting-looking like on the pictures in the manuals. Still, if you see an opening, exploiting it with an appropriate technique increases the chanse for ending the fight, or at least avoid making openings for the opponent. -or else one can only asume the "masters" we see in the manuals were charlatans and quacks
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2012
  13. Polar Bear

    Polar Bear Moved on

    Yeah totally agree. The techniques especially the maisterstrokes are there for when you "see" the correct opening or you want to create an opening to attack into. I only used the "Dobringer" manual which has no pictures so I get alot of strange looks from other HEMA people because some of the terminology and technique are different from later manuals. However I find the principles and advice contained in it to be the best I've read in any of the longsword fechtbooks.

    The Bear.
     
  14. Langenschwert

    Langenschwert Molon Labe

    Hi Bear,

    Dobringer's always been one of my favourites, especially for gleaning principles. I tend to use Ringeck and VonDanzig for the finer points of technique, and Meyer for pedagogy.

    That being said, I'm interested to learn what you get from Dobringer that you feel is missing from later manuals. Would you mind going into (ideally exhaustive! :)) detail about it?

    Best regards,

    -Mark
     
  15. Polar Bear

    Polar Bear Moved on

    Hey Mark, I'll write up an explanation for you as soon I have a free minute at work.

    The Bear.
     
  16. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    I saw a lot more epee in that then saber, regardless of the cut-versus-pierce issue. Lots of good attacks-in-opposition. Same principles, though they're obviously not as "big" motions with epees.

    Modern saber is an amazing sport--I really love it--but it has really very little to do with any strategies or principles that you'd apply in a swordfight with any type of sword. I didn't see anything in that that reminded me of saber.
     

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